Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 02:32:25 +0000 From: Da Rock <rock_on_the_web@hotmail.com> To: <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Subject: RE: what happened to linuxflashplugin? Message-ID: <BAY143-W45F603496F253149B5B5C88D240@phx.gbl> In-Reply-To: <200802130316.56903.danny@ricin.com> References: <47AFC80B.8090303@gmail.com> <47B1F890.1090408@chuckr.org> <BAY143-W15238CA399FD70FBC973BE8D2B0@phx.gbl> <200802130316.56903.danny@ricin.com>
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---------------------------------------- > From: danny@ricin.com > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 03:16:56 +0100 > Subject: Re: what happened to linuxflashplugin? >=20 > On Wednesday 13 February 2008 00:27:53 Da Rock wrote: >> ---------------------------------------- >> >>> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:50:40 -0500 >>> From: chuckr@chuckr.org >>> To: jonathan+freebsd-questions@hst.org.za >>> CC: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org >>> Subject: Re: what happened to linuxflashplugin? >>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>> Hash: SHA1 >>> >>> Jonathan McKeown wrote: >>>> On Monday 11 February 2008 22:26, Chuck Robey wrote: >>>>> All you folks who are focussing on YouTube are (purposefully? I don'= t >>>>> know) the fact that with just about half of the entire Web using flas= h >>>>> in one way or antoehr, not using Flash is a huge problem, as anyone w= ho >>>>> browses without a flashplayer knows. >>>> >>>> Just to provide a counterpoint to this sweeping generalisation, I brow= se >>>> without a Flash player and it's never caused me any problem at all. >>>> >>>> There are a few sites which don't work without Flash. Having checked o= n >>>> a number of occasions, I've found (and I stress this is a personal >>>> opinion) that heavy use of Flash is a fairly reliable marker of a site= I >>>> wouldn't be interested in whatever publishing techniques were used. >>>> >>>> It's rather like the old saying in the British advertising industry: >>>> only sing in an ad if you have nothing to say. >>>> >>>> How does Flash fit in with accessibility guidelines? In many countries= , >>>> a commercial site which doesn't degrade gracefully when viewed with (e= g) >>>> Lynx may fall foul of legislation protecting people with disabilities >>>> such as visual impairment. >>> >>> You know, there are some folks out there who are still using their old >>> M32 TTY's, and they can't understand why any folks would need mouses.=20 >>> Those of us who have successfully made the move to the 21st century can >>> tell them, but honestly, most of us are very tired of hearing the same >>> hoary old excuses why things aren't necessary. The majority of folks >>> doing browsing today aren't impressed that maybe some 3rd world country >>> is unhappy with flash sites, they just want their flash sites to work, >>> and ours don't. Why don't they? Because everytime someone comes up wi= th >>> a workable plan, all the real cave-men out there trot out there >>> war-stories, and bore us all to death with their memoirs, and endlessly >>> recursive arguments. Everytime they get proven wrong on one item, they >>> just move the clock back a few months, grab the previous >>> self-justification, and start the argument all back up again. You can'= t >>> out-last them. >>> >>> I personally tried to fix things, got soundly beaten to death over it >>> (and I WILL NOT try that one again, under pain of death, sorry!). MY >>> flash works here and that's all I will worry about. I can't predict wh= en >>> things will finally improve, maybe when enough folks realize they don't >>> have to put up with this. >>> >>>> In short, I think ``half of the entire Web using Flash'' may be a bit = of >>>> an overstatement even if you count Flash ad banners (which frankly I c= an >>>> do without), and the small number of Flash-only sites I encounter hasn= 't >>>> caused me temporary inconvenience, never mind ``a huge problem''. >>>> >>>> Jonathan >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >>>> "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) >>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org >>> >>> iD8DBQFHsfiQz62J6PPcoOkRAu6/AKCArtXTPwLGKD0xN+r6MG8fk+wEUwCglafp >>> Al9ztYns1ZHDV7IQ8foSU7o=3D >>> =3D1fY6 >>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >>> "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> >> That was a right pretty speech there, and I agree with the sentiments of >> moving forward with technology. However, I disagree that this is merely = a >> case backward compatibility. Are you aware that the w3 consortium has we= b >> accessibility drafting committee? >> >> Consider also the facts that I have brought forward that Adobe has singl= ed >> out OS's that are not allowed to run Flash Player. >> >> Consider also the fact that most designers simply use flash because they >> can't design properly and use other more accessible methods to achieve t= he >> same thing. >> >> I agree that a fix needs to be found, but this is not a "cave man" >> mentality, and we're not bringing up old war stories. The fact that this >> has not been all that successful given the larger number of sites now >> designed with flash player 9 which has been the number one problem here.= If >> you have a fix I am sure we would all welcome the knowledge and use it- = I >> certainly would. I merely point out (hopefully reaching some web designe= rs >> and other flash fans) that flash is not the only way to go, and is >> certainly not preferable. >=20 > Let me be the one to point out the (next) controversial thing: here's a=20 > perfect example why using linux binaries for stuff like this is a dead en= d. >=20 > And don't even start about the PC-BSD folks who want to make flash9 work.= ...=20 > via WINE. >=20 > We need a native flash or a replacement for the animation side, and where= =20 > flash is merely used as a video container, we have not option but to use= =20 > youitube-dl, miro, and the like. But there too, some native solution is=20 > needed, otherwise it will continue to work like crap if at all. >=20 > Dan >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" Here Here! Now how do we enforce it? I can understand why flash is used for the movie side of things- copyright = and compression (although there is a way around the copyright biz, and ther= e is other compression options). But what most lazy designers do is use fla= sh for all the "pretty things" in site design instead of doing things using= css and javascript. That is the problem which needs to be corrected for th= e most part. If you need animation what happened to gif? (let me know if th= ere is another format other than gif) Incidentally how did you fix the flash prob for yourself (post off list if = you feel you need to)? I'm extremely interested as I don't want to have to = rely on my linux laptops to get flash sites. (I need linux until I figure o= ut how to fix a tv card issue- at least they will work somewhat on them) _________________________________________________________________ New music from the Rogue Traders - listen now! http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=3Dclick&clientID=3D832&r= eferral=3DhotmailtaglineOct07&URL=3Dhttp://music.ninemsn.com.au/roguetrader= s=
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