Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 11:48:19 -0800 From: Steve Kargl <sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> To: Doug Barton <dougb@FreeBSD.org> Cc: Garrett Cooper <yanegomi@gmail.com>, svn-src-head@FreeBSD.org, svn-src-all@FreeBSD.org, src-committers@FreeBSD.org, Ben Kaduk <minimarmot@gmail.com> Subject: Re: svn commit: r228143 - in head: . share/mk tools/build/options Message-ID: <20111221194819.GA14294@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> In-Reply-To: <4EF22A82.3090305@FreeBSD.org> References: <20111220171740.X1005@besplex.bde.org> <8CCE4DDE-B203-42FF-A2FA-9106403DE077@FreeBSD.org> <201112200908.57306.jhb@freebsd.org> <4EF13F23.9060601@FreeBSD.org> <CAK2BMK6nkipbapNMu2_sQ8PNYW1PsT78%2BsjpwM2uCOTQ2%2Bu8mw@mail.gmail.com> <4EF14833.1090601@FreeBSD.org> <20111221045537.GA99900@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <CAGH67wSO11M_=yZRk-kUNgTxiKrHDG24K6kMM22529kDyWFNUw@mail.gmail.com> <20111221055932.GA250@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <4EF22A82.3090305@FreeBSD.org>
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On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 10:50:42AM -0800, Doug Barton wrote: > On 12/20/2011 9:59 PM, Steve Kargl wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 09:30:10PM -0800, Garrett Cooper wrote: > >> On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 8:55 PM, Steve Kargl > >> <sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > >>> On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 06:45:07PM -0800, Doug Barton wrote: > >>>> On 12/20/2011 18:29, Ben Kaduk wrote: > >>>>> 2011/12/20 Doug Barton <dougb@freebsd.org>: > >>>>>> On 12/20/2011 06:08, John Baldwin wrote: > >>>>>>> The defaults for src.conf should be for the common case > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Agreed. The problem we seem to be missing here is that developers are > >>>>>> not even statistically significant in measuring "the common case." > >>>>> > >>>>> "The common case" of what, though? ?"People using src.conf", or > >>>>> "people rebuilding world", or just "people using FreeBSD"? > >>>> > >>>> The latter of course. The overwhelming majority of FreeBSD users will > >>>> never use profiled libs, and in fact don't even know what they are. It's > >>>> just useless space being taken up on every install. The defaults should > >>>> be sensible for our users. > >>> > >>> OK, Doug, we get it! You don't like profiled libraries. > >>> You don't use them, and by extension the 'common user' > >>> does not use them. > > It's not about me. :) (And by extension, it's not about you either.) > >i> Thi point that I was trying to drive home (that I think Doug is as well) is: > >> - How many FreeBSD users are developers/performance/test engineers who > >> care about this stuff being compiled into the base system? > > > > Don't know. I haven't seen a statistically meaningful poll of > > the FreeBSD user base on which to draw an answer. I suspect that > > neither you nor Doug have seen such a poll. > > Oh please. It doesn't take a poll to know that the overwhelming majority > of FreeBSD installs are servers or end-user systems. Well, let's take it to a logical conclusion. What other knobs should default to off? WITHOUT_TOOLCHAIN may be appropriate for the segment of the user base who simply want a server. Clearly, end-users, who do not need profiled libraries, do not do software development so this knob seems appropriate. Well, if these end-users aren't doing software development, we might as well set WITHOUT_MAKE. My experience with 'common users' and reading through freebsd-questions suggests that manpages are useless, so please set WITHOUT_MAN. And since we aren't building manpages, we might as well set WITHOUT_GROFF. There, the system is neutered for the convenience of our end-users. > > Neither the time to build profiled libraries nor the diskspace > > used is significant. > > Great, so why is it such a problem for you to build them? > It is not a problem because the libraries are built by default. :-) Of course, there is the converse. Why is it a problem for you to turn off building profiled libaries? -- Steve
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