Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:15:21 -0800 From: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group <Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca> To: Richard Wackerbarth <rkw@dataplex.net> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SV: Voxware is toast. Get used to it. (Re: Suggestions for impro Message-ID: <200003221615.IAA00932@cwsys.cwsent.com> In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 2000 06:24:14 CST." <00032206535801.01108@nomad.dataplex.net>
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In message <00032206535801.01108@nomad.dataplex.net>, Richard Wackerbarth write s: > On Wed, 22 Mar 2000, Thomas Uhrfelt wrote: > > > "-RELEASE" is not a state. It is a point in time. > > > The other terms refer to the continuum between releases. > > > > > > I still think that "current" is misleading to newbies and should be > > called > > > "development". > > > > I have no religious views at all on the subject, so either way is fine by > > me. The reason why it's called CURRENT I belive is due to the fact thats > > where the focal point on the project is. New things gets adopted and > > basically - that's where FreeBSD is, not neccessarily the users. > > Yes, I understand the basis. FreeBSD was viewed as a DEVELOPMENT project > and everything was referenced in that context > > > > > It is possible from this > > > > mailing list launch suggestion for the development team? > > > > > > I don't think so. It seems that "its their sand box" and they really > > > don't care how unfriendly their practices are to mere "users" > > > > Your statement is highly unfair, I have been swimming in this community > > pond for the last 18 months, and I never experienced the core as elitist or > > > anything near that. > > Only 18 months! I've got FreeBSD systems still up that haven't been rebooted > in > that period. Unfortunately, Moore's Law may be the uptime killer :-) > > Before you pass judgment, you should read some of the > "You F&*(&king idiot, RTFM!" replies that used to go out in response to > questions from new, would be, users. > > > Not to mention that the FreeBSD support model is > > unparalleled. I get better support from the FreeBSD community that I do > > from $10K support contracts. > > I don't dispute this at all. It IS one of the real selling points. > > However, IMHO, FreeBSD has a "reputation" for being (to be polite) "elitist". > If the project ever wants to break out of the "developer's sandbox", it MUST > attract "mere users". I disagree. I'm not a developer and haven't been for over 8 years (used to develop MVS Operating System extensions and commercial products -- biggest project was over 1.5 million lines of assembler), nor am I in any FreeBSD circle (surrounded by pushy Linux bigots). I don't get any impression that FreeBSD is "elitist". To be sure there are some rude people and even some a-holes on the FreeBSD project. (Being an a-hole is not necessarily a bad thing. When I was single, the more of an a-hole I was, the more I got laid. Go figure.) Developers tend to be a focused bunch. Anything that keeps them away from their first love -- developing -- will elicit, at times, a strong emotional reaction. I for one get curt with people when distracted from my primary focus too often (or when dealing with a complete idiot). I would think other people might do the same. The reason you don't see (or aren't supposed to see) an attitude from commercial vendors is that they hire sales types to deal with customers while developers locked in the back room away from anyone who might get hurt. A project like FreeBSD doesn't attract many sales people to tell you what you want to hear. Besides I know a lot of developers who would develop for nothing but I don't know any sales people who would sell for nothing. I just think it's just the nature of the beast. > > I think that many of the developers ignore the "tax" that they pay in answeri > ng > the same support questions over and over. The developers are so set in their > ways that they fail to accept the fact that "cosmetic" changes can have real > benefit. There is a pervasive "if it's not code, it's worthless" attitude. Th > ey > prefer to make others suffer so they can continue in their comfortable ruts. > That's why I call it a "developer's sandbox". > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message Regards, Phone: (250)387-8437 Cy Schubert Fax: (250)387-5766 Team Leader, Sun/DEC Team Internet: Cy.Schubert@osg.gov.bc.ca Open Systems Group, ITSD, ISTA Province of BC To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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