Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 23:30:57 -0500 From: Matthew Graybosch <matthew@starbreaker.net> To: "Anthony Atkielski" <anthony@freebie.atkielski.com> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: As usual, I disagree. Message-ID: <200111282247.42677@starbreaker.net> In-Reply-To: <014f01c17886$a7d59df0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> References: <Pine.BSF.3.96.1011128163141.50019G-100000@fledge.watson.org> <20011128174155.A38325@rit.edu> <014f01c17886$a7d59df0$0a00000a@atkielski.com>
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 28 November 2001 22:33, you wrote: > Mike writes: > > It's not the best choice for me, nor for several > > others who have already made that known. > > Perhaps not, but I was not addressing you and your circle of > acquaintances exclusively. And overall, it _is_ the best choice. > It surprises me that anyone contests the obvious. Sounds like you're begging the question. Not to mention arguing from popularity instead of the technical merits of Windows. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's right or good. Windows may well be the *worst* choice from a usability standpoint, IMHO. Any script kiddie with a rudimentary knowledge of VB can write worms and Trojans that can cause serious damage to a Windows machine should the user let down her guard for even a moment. Windows insists on abstracting everything from the user, so that the user is mostly insulated from the consequences of her actions. If I need to get under the hood for any reason, even to indulge my curiosity, then I have to get past all the bondage and discipline built into Windows. Windows is sloppily coded, and wastes the potential of just about every computer it touches. Among other things, Windows insists on using the swapfile as much as possible, instead of real memory, which needlessly wastes disk space and causes utterly unnecessary disk I/O should I actually try to push the computer. Installing or removing even the most trivial applications requires proprietary automated tools like InstallShield because of the Registry, a beast nasty enough to make Great Cthulhu look as cuddly as a kitten in a basket. Quite frankly, dealing with Windows on a home desktop, or even a work desktop, is more aggravation than most of us get paid for. > Only by those with a religious devotion to a different operating > system. I'm sure there are plenty of ordinary, professional IT > folk here, too, who do not possess religious beliefs in one > software product or computer system over another and thus do not > feel inclined to leap irrationally to their defense at every > perceived aspersion cast upon their faith. Frankly, it sounds like you're religiously devoted to Windows on the desktop. Which is fine; you're welcome to your opinion. However, as Ayn Rand writes: "Judge, and expect to be judged." When I argue that FreeBSD is better for desktop use than Windows, I argue from roughly five years of self-taught experience. I've used MS-DOS, PC-DOS, Windows 3.1, 9x, NT4, and 2K. I've used several Linux distributions: Red Hat 6.1, SuSE 6.3 - 7.1, Mandrake 8, Slackware 2, and Debian 2.2. I have tried to use each of these systems on the desktop, and with each I have had to keep a bottle of generic acetominophen by my keyboard; each system induced at least one headache a week. I've been using FreeBSD since the end of September, on a desktop, and I haven't had to use the painkillers yet. > That's true of most users, but that is not what makes Windows > attractive. The availability of 100,000 different applications > for the platform in itself justifies Windows. So does its > near-total dedication to the desktop environment. So does its > compatibility (most other people use Windows, so Windows > applications are the most compatible with what most other people > are using). There are many reasons. Don't just say that "there are many reasons". List them, and please explain why you consider them reasons to use Windows. To begin with, a significant portion of the 100K apps you mention are games. Many of the others are either shareware or freeware, much of it as bug-ridden as a 30-year old hooker from Queens. I think it'd be fair to say that the average Windows user might use 100 out of the 100K Windows apps you mention. Most of these apps have BSD (or GNU/Linux) counterparts that are free as in beer if not free as in speech. Quite frankly, there's no reason for formatting a document using MS' proprietary *.DOC format when they look just as good in properly formatted HTML. Of course, I wouldn't take an HTML document from a Windows user without first using the Demoronizer, but that's what I get for having friends that use Windows. > My opinion seems to correlate well with the market figures, and > that is not surprising, since the market figures are in part what > drives my opinion. Now, if I went by market figures, I could conclude that the Backstreet Boys are a better band than Iron Maiden, and the Britney Spears is a better singer than Sarah Brightman. Marketing figures are relevent only to marketers. I personally consider marketers as low a form of life as politicians, wife-beaters, and neo-Nazis. > As a software engineer, then, you should also know that systems > that are the most friendly to users tend to be the most unfriendly > to software engineers, and vice versa. Now, why should people put up with the security holes and the general incompetence surr > I tend to agree that Windows is a nightmare to program for. But > that has no influence on its utility for the average user, since > the average user is not programming for his own system. I insist on differing on this point. I think that the harder a system is to program for, the harder it is to write quality software. If it's difficult to write quality software, then the user has to put up with mediocre software. While most Windows users might not be programmers, they do suffer when Windows programmers try to cut corners when the API becomes too nightmarish to handle. > Or they lack religious devotion to the OS. After all, people > running FreeBSD on servers are using the OS for what it does best, > and absent a special affection for it above and beyond that. Personally, I think you fall back on the religion thing because you cannot convince us as to the correctness of your position, yet cannot concede that since we are not "average users" we have no reason to tolerate an OS geared to "average users". > No, it is more open as well. _Anyone_ can write programs for > Windows, and this has always been true. It has not been true in > the past for Apple, and I suspect it is still not true now. When did Apple become relevant to this discussion of FBSD vs. Windows on the desktop? Yes, any schmuck can write programs for Windows. I've worked with some of the idiots and have done some truly idiotic things myself. However, anybody *willing to make an effort* can write programs for FBSD. They don't have to learn C; they can do plenty with Python, and Python is free. Just install the port. With Windows, on the other hand, the dominant programming tools come from MS: the Visual Studio tools, and they cost an arm and a leg. > Apple is a good example of what happens when religious faith is > given priority over practical considerations. Microsoft is a good > example of what happens when practical considerations are given > priority over religious faith. As proof, note that the most > important application on the Mac is Microsoft Office. Funny, I thought that Microsoft was a good example of what happens when marketing considerations are given priority over writing solid code. Microsoft's security record is reason enough to call their products shoddy. And, Anthony, please *do not* CC me in your reply. Just reply to the list. Thanks. - -- Matthew Graybosch http://www.starbreaker.net GnuPG Key ID: 0x7D488659 "Sex, Unix, and rock 'n roll" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8BboBcCiK1X1IhlkRAvFcAJ97zxaqlaGpDnpCE9tNJtTWILmO9wCggW/G XWB3jcnci8Z3RPpW1O/KIO0= =bDYp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
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