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Date:      Sat, 23 Dec 2000 06:34:13 -0800
From:      Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group <Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca>
To:        cjclark@alum.mit.edu
Cc:        Mikhail Teterin <mi@aldan.algebra.com>, Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group <Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: an unkillable process (again) 
Message-ID:  <200012231434.eBNEYoc09416@cwsys.cwsent.com>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 23 Dec 2000 00:12:23 PST." <20001223001223.M96105@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> 

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In message <20001223001223.M96105@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com>, "Crist 
J. Clark"
 writes:
> On Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 12:57:13PM -0500, Mikhail Teterin wrote:
> > Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group once stated:
> > 
> > =In message <200012202226.eBKMQf100632@misha.privatelabs.com>, Mikhail 
> > =Teterin writes:
> > => Here it is:
> > => 
> > =>   425 mi       -18   0 45308K   144K swwrt    4:25  0.10%  0.10% communi
> cator
> > => -l
> > => 
> > => For some bizarre reasons of  its own, Netscape went into swap-writing
> > => binge. Why did it make it immune to ``kill -9''?
> > =
> > =Then it appears  that swwrt has a higher priority  than kill has, which
> > =it should have.
> > 
> > Rather confusing... kill -9 does not deliver any signals to the process.
> > It is there to kill. Shouldn't it have the higher priority?
> 
> It is not a "priority" issue. The process is in the midst of an
> operation that cannot be interupted. For some reason, that operation
> is hanging up. I believe 'swwrt' is writing to swap? I/O calls are the
> most frequent uninteruptable calls that get hung.

Actually it is a "priority issue".  Read Design and Implementation of 
the 4.4BSD Operating System pp 83-85, and pp 89:  To prevent a sleeping 
process, e.g. one waiting for a device to respond, the kernel raises 
the priority of that sleep to splhigh to prevent interrupts that might 
cause process-state transitions.  For example, see pp 84, Table 4-2 in 
the book, if you have a process waiting for swap (PSWP, priority 0) and 
you issue a kill which would run at the baseline kernel priority, PZERO 
(priority 22), your kill will have no effect on a process in PSWP state 
until that process transitions to a lower priority.

> 
> > Also, anything that  prevents root from killing a process  is not right,
> > IMHO.
> 
> It is usually indicative of a deeper problem.

Agreed.  For example an NFS I/O running at priority PRIBIO (priority 
16) cannot be killed by a process running at PZERO.  The deeper problem 
being that a device or in this case an NFS server is not responding.


Regards,                         Phone:  (250)387-8437
Cy Schubert                        Fax:  (250)387-5766
Team Leader, Sun/Alpha Team   Internet:  Cy.Schubert@osg.gov.bc.ca
Open Systems Group, ITSD, ISTA
Province of BC





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