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Date:      Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:04:01 -0300
From:      "Mario Lobo" <Mlobo@ear.com.br>
To:        security@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: FreeBSD Security Advisory FreeBSD-SA-02:21.tcpip
Message-ID:  <3CBFCF67.3119.3C78042@localhost>
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020418135706.02192c60@nospam.lariat.org>
References:  <20020418181744.45846.qmail@web14201.mail.yahoo.com>

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I=B4ve been following this thread since it started and this is the DEFINIT=
E 
exposition of the problem that Brett has been trying to show since the 
beginning. To anyone that that thinks there is not really an issue here, t=
he 
last paragraph applies.

Brett, you next step (if there is any next step) is to use apples and oran=
ges!!

Mario Lobo

> Acutally, it doesn't. And it really hurts evangelism and new
> adopters of FreeBSD.
> 
> For example, here's a rough transcript of a conversation I recently
> had with an admin who wanted to put up a FreeBSD server.
> 
> Prospective user: FreeBSD sounds neat. How do I install it?
> 
> Me: Well, it's really easy. You just put in the first install floppy,
> boot the system, insert the second floppy when asked, and away you
> go. You can get the release floppies at ftp://www.freebsd.org/.
> 
> Prospective user: But I've heard that there were some security holes 
> and bugs discovered since then. How do I install a version with those 
> problems fixed?
> 
> [What I'd like to say: Oh, that's simple. In the same directory
> you'll see 4.5-RELEASE, 4.5-RELEASE-p1, 4.5-RELEASE-p2, et
> cetera. Just get the floppies for the most recent one, and it
> will have all the critical fixes.
> 
> What I'd like to hear the prospective user say: This is great!
> I'm glad that FreeBSD lives up to its reputation for being
> easy to install.]
> 
> What I have to say now: That's not so simple. First, you have
> to install the last ful release, bugs and all. Then, you have 
> to use CVSup...
> 
> Prospective user: What's that?
> 
> Me: Well, it updates your source tree to include the latest fixes.
> 
> Prospective user: Source tree? I'm not ready to play with the
> source; I'm not familiar with the system yet, and I don't know
> what this CVSup thing is.
> 
> Me: Unfortunately, there's no other way to do it. You have to
> get the latest source, using the tag RELENG_4_5, and then
> do a "make world."
> 
> Prospective user: What's a tag? How do I use it? And what's a
> "make world?" And how do you find out the name "RELENG_4_5"
> if you don't know it already?
> 
> Me: Do you have about half an hour? I can teach you the basics
> of CVSup....
> 
> Prospective user: Naah, never mind. This is more complicated than
> I thought, and it's a lot more complicated than installing
> Red Hat and installing the latest RPMs to fix the bugs. I just 
> wanted to download a version of the OS that's secure, but I 
> don't have time to learn about all this stuff you're talking 
> about right this minute. I guess I'll stick with {Win2K/Linux}.
> 
> (End of dialogue)
> 
> As you can see from the above, FreeBSD doesn't have a simple answer
> to a simple, reasonable question: "How can I *just install* FreeBSD
> with all of the latest security fixes on a new machine, without
> walking off of a conceptual cliff?"
> 
> We need to address this. Not only would it help newcomers; it would
> also help admins who just want to do a quick, no-hassle upgrade that
> includes the latest security fixes. We should NOT say, "the heck with 
> them if they're not willing to learn all sorts of developer stuff on 
> the spot." That's pointless elitism. And we shouldn't make it
> unreasonably hard for admins to update... or they might not do it.
> And then, when their systems are broken into, FreeBSD's reputation 
> as a secure OS suffers.
> 
> --Brett Glass
> 



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