Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 18:32:22 +0100 From: Jamie Heckford <heckfordj@psi-domain.co.uk> To: chosey@nidhog.com Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: RE: RE: Chasing the kiddies (was: Named Keep crashing) Message-ID: <20010404183222.Y2879@storm.psi-domain.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <B1A7D9973EBED3119ADD009027DC8649180F81@mailman.thenap.com>; from drew.weaver@thenap.com on Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 17:43:02 %2B0100 References: <B1A7D9973EBED3119ADD009027DC8649180F81@mailman.thenap.com>
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I think allowing less understanding is *not* the best stance to take on running a public server. RPM is easier, but less flexible (IMHO). I must admit though, apt-get is quite impressive when it comes to upgrading. J On 2001.04.04 17:43 Drew J. Weaver wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Chet Hosey [mailto:chosey@nidhog.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 12:17 PM > To: Drew J. Weaver > Cc: 'freebsd-isp@freebsd.org' > Subject: OT: RE: Chasing the kiddies (was: Named Keep crashing) > > > >From what I've seen, RH has GUI tools for a lot of things (Linuxconf, I > think?). RH seems much simpler to run (as an end user) than FreeBSD. You > can download RPMs for everything, including the kernel. I know RedHat > users who've never touched gcc. > > Even using ports requires slightly more knowledge than "Using Netscape, > download coolproggie.rpm, open an xterm, and run rpm -i coolproggie.rpm". > > Under Debian, upgrading Bind for the security fix is a matter of "apt-get > update; apt-get install bind". Hell, upgrading *everything*, system libs, > init, X, name-your-vi-clone, emacs, bind, lynx, etc., is just "apt-get > update; apt-get dist-upgrade". > > The RedHat way of doing things allows one to avoid understanding. It > seems > that FreeBSD allows less ignorance. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Chet Hosey > <chosey@nidhog.com> > ________________________________________________________________________ > > On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Drew J. Weaver wrote: > > > Just an off topic note here, FreeBSD, BSDi/OS and RedHat are > all of > > equal "difficulty" to administer, I run all 3 and none of them make me > > shiver in my boots. Not sure what point you're attempting to make here? > > > > --- quoth the raven, --- > > > > Everybody should start with a *nix running on a publicly accessable > box. > > (Note: Linux doesn't count here, except possibly really old versions of > > Slackware. Damned RH makes things too easy. No X either - CLI, people!) > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Chet Hosey > > <chosey@nidhog.com> > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Bill Vermillion wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 05:45:48PM +1000, Enno Davids thus spoke: > > > > > > > | > Is there any way to trace who is doing it? | > Running tcpdump > > > > with certain filter settings to avoid logging everything and > > > > filling the disk? > > > > > > > > > > | Dont bother... Just install the fixed version of bind... > > > > | Every kid with a script and an internet connection is probably > > > > | doing this to you!!! > > > > > > > This response kind of bothers me. There was a time > > > > when everytime I could sanely trace spammers I emailed > > > > abuse@wherever.was.relevant to advise them. Similarly, when people > > > > probed Apache I'd send off adivsory emails. > > > > > > If you find a way this works let me know. I've given up doing this > > > because except for the most well known, I've received rejects from > > > all mail addresses at the offending provider, root,abuse, > > > postmaster, webmaster, etc. So I just gave up and put the in > > > the REJECT list. > > > > > > Those days responsible people, and not quick buck artists, we're > > > keeping the 'net running. > > > > > > > There was a time when if you probed the Apache on my machine it > > > > winnuke'd you back. Moral issues aside, there _was_ a great deal > > > > of satisfaction there... Needless to say, there's little mileage > > > > in this now (damned M$ service packs!). :) > > > > > > I never was into 'revenge' or 'tit-for-tat'. > > > > > > Bill > > > -- > > > Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message > > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> > <HTML> > <HEAD> > <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> > <META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2650.12"> > <TITLE>RE: RE: Chasing the kiddies (was: Named Keep crashing)</TITLE> > </HEAD> > <BODY> > > <P> <FONT SIZE=2>Actually its > easier to keep updated software on your machine if you're using FreeBSD, > through ports, all you do is cvsup your ports collection and go into the > directory of the program you want to install and type make install and it > downloads and installs it, doesnt really get much easier than that, but > really, what is wrong with something being easy, and understandable, I > find it somewhat refreshing that not everything is as complicated as > sendmail =) </FONT></P> > > <P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Chet Hosey [<A > HREF="mailto:chosey@nidhog.com">mailto:chosey@nidhog.com</A>]</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 12:17 PM</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: Drew J. Weaver</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Cc: 'freebsd-isp@freebsd.org'</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: OT: RE: Chasing the kiddies (was: Named Keep > crashing)</FONT> > </P> > <BR> > > <P><FONT SIZE=2>From what I've seen, RH has GUI tools for a lot of things > (Linuxconf, I</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>think?). RH seems much simpler to run (as an end user) > than FreeBSD. You</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>can download RPMs for everything, including the kernel. > I know RedHat</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>users who've never touched gcc.</FONT> > </P> > > <P><FONT SIZE=2>Even using ports requires slightly more knowledge than > "Using Netscape,</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>download coolproggie.rpm, open an xterm, and run rpm -i > coolproggie.rpm".</FONT> > </P> > > <P><FONT SIZE=2>Under Debian, upgrading Bind for the security fix is a > matter of "apt-get</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>update; apt-get install bind". Hell, upgrading > *everything*, system libs,</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>init, X, name-your-vi-clone, emacs, bind, lynx, etc., is > just "apt-get</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>update; apt-get dist-upgrade".</FONT> > </P> > > <P><FONT SIZE=2>The RedHat way of doing things allows one to avoid > understanding. It seems</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>that FreeBSD allows less ignorance.</FONT> > </P> > > <P><FONT SIZE=2>________________________________________________________________________</FONT> > </P> > > <P><FONT SIZE=2>Chet Hosey</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2><chosey@nidhog.com></FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>________________________________________________________________________</FONT> > </P> > > <P><FONT SIZE=2>On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Drew J. Weaver wrote:</FONT> > </P> > > <P><FONT SIZE=2>> Just an off topic > note here, FreeBSD, BSDi/OS and RedHat are all of</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> equal "difficulty" to administer, I run > all 3 and none of them make me</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> shiver in my boots. Not sure what point you're > attempting to make here?</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> --- quoth the raven, ---</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Everybody should start with a *nix running on a > publicly accessable box.</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> (Note: Linux doesn't count here, except possibly > really old versions of</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Slackware. Damned RH makes things too easy. No X > either - CLI, people!)</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ________________________________________________________________________</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Chet Hosey</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> <chosey@nidhog.com></FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ________________________________________________________________________</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Bill Vermillion wrote:</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 05:45:48PM +1000, Enno > Davids thus spoke:</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ></FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > > | > Is there any way to trace who is > doing it? | > Running tcpdump</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > > with certain filter settings to avoid > logging everything and</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > > filling the disk?</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ></FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ></FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > > | Dont bother... Just install the fixed > version of bind...</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > > | Every kid with a script and an internet > connection is probably</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > > | doing this to you!!!</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ></FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > > This response kind of bothers me. There > was a time</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > > when everytime I could sanely trace > spammers I emailed</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > > abuse@wherever.was.relevant to advise > them. Similarly, when people</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > > probed Apache I'd send off adivsory > emails.</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ></FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > If you find a way this works let me > know. I've given up doing this</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > because except for the most well known, I've > received rejects from</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > all mail addresses at the offending provider, > root,abuse,</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > postmaster, webmaster, etc. So I just > gave up and put the in</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > the REJECT list.</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ></FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > Those days responsible people, and not quick > buck artists, we're</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > keeping the 'net running.</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ></FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > > There was a time when if you probed the > Apache on my machine it</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > > winnuke'd you back. Moral issues aside, > there _was_ a great deal</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > > of satisfaction there... Needless to say, > there's little mileage</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > > in this now (damned M$ service packs!). > :)</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ></FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > I never was into 'revenge' or > 'tit-for-tat'.</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ></FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > Bill</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > --</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . > com</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ></FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to > majordomo@FreeBSD.org</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in > the body of the message</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ></FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> To Unsubscribe: send mail to > majordomo@FreeBSD.org</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>> with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the > body of the message</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT> > </P> > <BR> > > <P><FONT SIZE=2>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org</FONT> > <BR><FONT SIZE=2>with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of > the message</FONT> > </P> > > </BODY> > </HTML> -- Jamie Heckford Chief Network Engineer Psi-Domain - Innovative Linux Solutions. Ask Us How. FreeBSD - The power to serve ===================================== email: heckfordj@psi-domain.co.uk web: http://www.psi-domain.co.uk/ tel: +44 (0)1737 789 246 fax: +44 (0)1737 789 245 mobile: +44 (0)7866 724 224 ===================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message
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