Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 10:07:25 -0600 From: Ian Lepore <freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org> To: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> Cc: Garrett Cooper <yanegomi@gmail.com>, Devin Teske <dteske@freebsd.org>, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New Boot Loader Menu Message-ID: <1349798845.1123.10.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> In-Reply-To: <C26CCFD0-8C9C-4E9E-827B-96F8F8D95B28@bsdimp.com> References: <0655B56F-AD43-402B-872C-568378E650F9@fisglobal.com> <5071D6B5.1010609@FreeBSD.org> <B4A82131-4B11-4FE8-839B-FCC45C1D4445@fisglobal.com> <50726C73.10506@FreeBSD.org> <D776ABE7-6C46-4C66-8C6E-159BCD61761F@fisglobal.com> <50732CB1.9080900@gmx.de> <71571815-CBF3-4B16-BA77-2828B8BA613C@fisglobal.com> <CAGH67wQKUvbB1TNJofA6_qXhkxqC_At_Fmg8fcqswj_exBxBFQ@mail.gmail.com> <515694A9-3D0F-4150-8865-F518072C5EC6@fisglobal.com> <C26CCFD0-8C9C-4E9E-827B-96F8F8D95B28@bsdimp.com>
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On Tue, 2012-10-09 at 09:53 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > On Oct 9, 2012, at 9:25 AM, Devin Teske wrote: > > > …Re-adding the list… (good point) > > > > On Oct 9, 2012, at 8:15 AM, Garrett Cooper wrote: > > > >> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Devin Teske <devin.teske@fisglobal.com> wrote: > >>> …Re-adding the list… > >>> > >>> On Oct 8, 2012, at 12:42 PM, olli hauer wrote: > >>> > >>>> ... > >>>> > >>>>> You'll also get zero argument out of me that putting "Delete" on-screen is not only to-be-avoided for the opposing situation (that some keyboards may not have a "Delete" but instead "Backspace") but indeed "Delete" is worse because the implied connotation associated with the "Delete" key (_someone_ might be confused into thinking "Delete" will purge the menu from memory). > >>>>> > >>>>> I will play with keycodes. > >>>>> > >>>>> Just be aware that currently left arrow CANNOT work. That is a bad suggestion (read why below). > >>>>> > >>>>> In Forth, I'm using the "key" primitive which -- rather unfortunately -- produces a zero for "left-arrow", "right-arrow", "up-arrow", "down-arrow", "F1", "F2", "F3", "F4", "F5", "F6", "F7", "F8", "F9", and "F10" (note: it doesn't catch "F11", "F12", "F13", "F14", "F15", or "F16"). > >>>>> > >>>>> So all those key options are right-out when it comes to "using them instead of Backspace" (I simply can't identify in the loader when those keys are pressed). > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> ... > >>>> > >>>> will the space key work for a general back to or up one entry? > >>>> I suspect the space bar has the same keycode on all platforms (intel/appel/ppc/sparc ...) > >>>> > >>>> Anyway nice work :) > >>>> > >>> > >>> By golly, I think olli is on to something here! > >>> > >>> What does everybody think about space? > >>> > >>> I like it because it's a NICE BIG TARGET (and it's not used by anything else). > >> > >> It was used once upon a time to pause the bootloader countdown… > > > > Well… that hasn't *really* been true since r222417 (16+ months ago). > > > > Ever since r222417, *any/all* keys will kill the countdown-to-boot. > > > > Since you mention it, I think it's worth mentioning that SPACE is still looking like a good choice… > > > > At the main-menu, space is not hooked into anything so it retains its legacy of "press SPACE to stop the countdown" meanwhile, submenus are free to use SPACE because by the time they've reached *any* submenu, the countdown has already been killed. > > This will be too confusing for users. Space usually means 'select the current menu item' along with Return. It doesn't mean in any system I've ever used 'go back' (with the exception of space selecting a drawn button that says back). I agree, using space for "go back" would be a POLA violation. How about Escape, that often means go-back in a UI (common in BIOS config screens), and I didn't see it on the list of forbidden keys. (Not that I'm emotionally invested in this stuff at all. The only boot-menu feature that I would fight hard for is the one that I've used for years: beastie_disable=YES.) -- Ian
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