Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 12:25:14 -0800 From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com> To: "Paul Krill" <Paul_Krill@infoworld.com> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Sun revokes FreeBSD license for Java Message-ID: <LOBBIFDAGNMAMLGJJCKNAEPBEPAA.tedm@toybox.placo.com> In-Reply-To: <OF0C8A97A0.F8C34632-ON88256F80.006B83CB-88256F80.006BD79B@infoworld.com>
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Hi Paul, I'm going to top-post here since you used html formatting and it's hard to insert into that. As for the FreeBSD distribution of the JDK, if you go to the link here: http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/downloads/java.shtml You will see that the organization "The FreeBSD Foundation" is currently distributing the 1.3 JRE and JDK. They would like to stop doing this and just see these included on the FreeBSD release CD's, or see Sun distributing them off Sun's Java download pages. The only costs involved I'm aware of were incurred in dealing with Sun to get the license fixed so that the FreeBSD Foundation could distribute it. And the Foundation bore those costs. Now, as for my affiliation, the short answer is that the FreeBSD Project is organized in such a fashion as there's really only 2 classes of affiliation - either a committer which means you can directly modify the source code (subject to an organized set of procedures) or a user, which can't. I'm not currently a committer so my affiliation is as a user. But I think what your really looking for is an official spokesman. And I have to tell you that such doesen't exist. Here's the long answer: The FreeBSD Foundation isn't exactly an "official spokesman" of the FreeBSD Project because in reality there really isn't any "official spokesman" of the FreeBSD Project. However they are the closest thing that the Project has to an official spokesman. Years ago the FreeBSD Project had a more centralized organization with a President who acted in that capacity. The Project got rid of that because since it's not an incorporated entity but merely a loose organization of volunteers, that person had no legal standing to negotiate contracts - and since that person wasn't elected from the entire FreeBSD userbase, the only reason they had any "spokesman" capacity at all is that the general userbase was contented with the way things were. So if your looking for quotes for the article, your going to have to attribute any user quotes to that person's resume, you can for example attribute any quote from me as "Ted Mittelstaedt, system administrator for Internet Partners Inc. (that is the ISP I work at) or you can attribute to my book authorship instead which is already in the prior post. Most other people on this mailing list (for that is what you have e-mailed to) have their own attributions. But, technically nobody speaks for The FreeBSD Project. The FreeBSD Foundation is as close as your going to get to a single point of contact. Linux is the same way, quotes are either attributed to the distributors, like Red Hat company, or to Linux Torvalds who is supposedly the single kernel maintainer. To get opinions from the people actually doing the work to make the Java port work on FreeBSD, you will want to e-mail the following mailing list: freebsd-java@freebsd.org I look forward to seeing your article in Infoworld! Ted -----Original Message----- From: Paul Krill [mailto:Paul_Krill@infoworld.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 11:38 AM To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; glewis@freebsd.org; Jorn Argelo; Joshua Lokken Subject: RE: Sun revokes FreeBSD license for Java Thank you very much for your help. I had some follow-up questions. * For background, FreeBSD wants to distribute the JDK with the FreeBSD OS? FreeBSD's implementation of specific Java technologies? Both? * Which version of the JDK has FreeBSD been prevented from redistributing? Are there cost issues involved? * Please state your specific affiliation with FreeBSD. "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com> 01/05/2005 11:29 AM To: "Paul Krill" <Paul_Krill@infoworld.com>, "Joshua Lokken" <joshua.lokken@gmail.com> cc: "Jorn Argelo" <jorn@wcborstel.nl>, <glewis@freebsd.org>, <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Subject: RE: Sun revokes FreeBSD license for Java Hi Paul, Hey, good luck to you! The basic root of the problem as I understand it is that Sun license for the JDK 1.3 originally prevented redistribution of the JDK with the FreeBSD which is something that the Project wanted to be able to do for obvious reasons. As a result the FreeBSD Foundation worked with Sun to make some modifications to the Sun license to allow this, as a result the JDK 1.3 can now be redistributed. Unfortunately with the newer JDKs Sun once again changed the licensing terms and the original people at Sun who came up to speed to understand the issues are no longer there, and there's a new set of people there in charge of this who are more busy with bigger fish to fry. It's of course quite legal for end users to download the JDK directly from Sun and compile it on FreeBSD themselves and then use it. There's no shortage of development time available to get the newer JDK's working on the latest FreeBSD versions and many people have already done so. The problem is in the licensing issues. If you puruse the Sun website the licensing terms are quite vague on Java as it is and half of them don't reconcile with public statements that various Sun officials have made at one time or another. I think there is a story there for you but more along the lines of: "Sun's wishy-washy licensing terms driving people away from Java" along with a story about how it pretty much takes a tema of expert lawyers to figure out if a business is in compliance with Sun's terms or not - and even then you don't know if Sun is going to come after you for royalty payments or not at some point in the future. Just try reading the many Sun licenses for Java off their website and try to imagine where a typical high tech company would fall in and you will see what I mean. Ted Mittelstaedt Author: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide. Addison-Wesley, 2000. tedm@toybox.placo.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Paul Krill > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 11:14 AM > To: Joshua Lokken > Cc: Jorn Argelo; glewis@freebsd.org; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Sun revokes FreeBSD license for Java > > > I am a writer with Infoworld magazine and would like to speak > with someone > at FreeBSD regarding these issues with Sun, for a possible story. I will > be contacting Sun as well. Here are some links I am following up on here: > > http://www.javalobby.org/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=16511&tstart=0 > > http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/press/20041221-newsletter.shtml (scroll > down to Java Update) > > > > Joshua Lokken <joshua.lokken@gmail.com> > 01/05/2005 11:05 AM > Please respond to Joshua Lokken > > To: Paul Krill <Paul_Krill@infoworld.com> > cc: Jorn Argelo <jorn@wcborstel.nl>, glewis@freebsd.org, > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Sun revokes FreeBSD license for Java > > > On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 11:01:22 -0800, Paul Krill <Paul_Krill@infoworld.com> > wrote: > > I was doing some browsing on the Web, looking for something else, and > > bumped into this. It seems like a lot of people already know. > > > > "Jorn Argelo" <jorn@wcborstel.nl> > > 01/05/2005 10:59 AM > > > > To: Paul Krill <Paul_Krill@infoworld.com>, > > freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org, glewis@FreeBSD.org > > cc: > > Subject: Re: Sun revokes FreeBSD license for Java > > > > > > On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 10:53:07 -0800, Paul Krill wrote > > > This is Paul Krill of Infoworld magazine. I would like to speak with > > > someone at FreeBSD regarding issues with Sun. I am at 415-978-3228 > > > or email me with a number where I can call you. Thanks. > > > > Where did you get this information? > > What information? This post is very lacking in details. What is it? > If you're the poster, what's your point? Why -questions? > If it's just something I don't "get", please clue me in. > > > -- > Joshua Lokken > Open Source Advocate > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >
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