Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:20:35 -0600 From: Jeffrey Dunitz <orpheus@lemieux.hockey.net> To: wayne@crb-web.com Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ISP Message-ID: <19981218172035.B26150@lemieux.hockey.net> In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.981214132245.19532C-100000@crb.crb-web.com>; from Wayne Cuddy on Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 01:23:40PM -0500 References: <367d3ef8.85920827@mail.afnetinc.com> <Pine.LNX.3.95.981214132245.19532C-100000@crb.crb-web.com>
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On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 01:23:40PM -0500, Wayne Cuddy said something like: > Once this is done how do you as an ISP provide customers with inet access? Do > you go through another ISP or is there some more direct way? > Sorry about the late reply. I've been out of the loop for a while. Generally, you get a T1 or frame relay feed from someone like USWest, Sprint, MCI, UUNet, AlterNet, or other large ISP. If you get your feed from UUnet or AlterNet, or another provider who isn't also a phone company, you'll still need to deal with the phone company (USwest, GTE, Ameritech, NYNEX, etc) to get a point-to-point connection from you to your upstream ISP. Read below, I have more comments... > > > On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Elliot Finley wrote: > > > Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:45:57 GMT > > From: Elliot Finley <efinley@efinley.com> > > To: James Barry <techie@zeus.anet-dfw.com> > > Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: Re: ISP > > > > Just set up FreeBSD 2.2.8 on your Intel hardware. 64 megs ram is > > enough, although more is always better. :-) Buy a Portmaster PM25 for > > about $400. Use exim for your smtp MTA, use cucipop for your pop3 > > access. Use apache 1.3.3 for your web server. Use ProFTP for your > > FTP access. Set up DNS/BIND. Buy an old Cisco for your edge router. > > (~$400). Buy a BAT electronics CSU/DSU for $370. They are very ugly, > > but they work good. Buy a horde of used analog modems for cheap and > > you're ready to roll. I agree with most of that. I'd still recommend Sendmail over exim, but that's religious. There's also a payware version of Sendmail now, which offers some management features, a GUI and probably some other stuff. Cucipop, Apache and BIND all rock. Don't know about ProFTP...I've always used WU-ftp. I'm seeing a lot of other people use ProFTP now, so it's probably good. I can't recommend highly enough the BAT CSU's. They're the most simple, generic-looking black boxes, but you plug them in and they go. If you don't need SNMP, remote console control, or other wacky features found in the nicer and more expensive ADC/Kentrox ones, go with the BAT and you won't be sorry. I'm also a big fan of the Cisco 2500 series as a single T1 router. There are a couple 2500 series boxes that have two T1 ports. Here's why that's important: Three years ago, most ISPs were little six-person companies, stuck in an office somewhere where they could get a T1 to somewhere, a couple dozen phone lines, and a couple hundred users. At that time, if you had 10 modems, you could scrape up 50 users, and just about break even until you could build up a userbase. When you hit 500 users, you started making decent money. Then you could start putting branch POPs in other cities in your area. After a while longer, if you were aggressive, you could buy out a couple other small ISPs and you'd be state-wide. These were the good old days. Then something happened--the big phone companies and cable companies decided to get into the ISP business. They had the resources to unlimited phone lines, nationwide coverage from the first day of business, redundant links to the net, multiple routes, and they were pretty much connected to _each other_ with big pipes. They could offer all the same stuff the local ISPs did, at the same $20 per month price, but they could scale better, and offer things that appeal to People With No Clue, such as "it's all on one bill. That makes it better!". So here's what I'm really saying here: the small, independent ISP market is dead. The ones who got into it in the good old days will still continue to be in business, and even grow a little, but there's no room for new indie ISPs, _unless_ you _really_ have something to offer. A hacked-together ISP with a freebsd box and a little cisco router is not going to cut it. If you're going to do this, you're going to need to _start_ with multiple links to the net, and for that you need a better (and expensive) router that can do full BGP4 routing between multiple interfaces, to load balance between your T1s, or better yet, T3s. To suddenly get that kind of business together requires a very large amount of venture capital. You're playing in the Big Boys market here. Unless you can offer the same level of service as AT&T WorldNet or Netcom can provide, don't risk it, because the odds are not in your favor. About the only exception to this is if you live in some remote location in which there are no toll-free POPs to major ISPs. If you're in that situation, forget everyhing I just said, and keep this one last point in mind: The suggestion of getting a bunch of standalone analog modems and sticking them on a portmaster is going to drive you nuts. You'll spend your whole day poking hung modems, and trying to keep track of which lines are screwing up your rollover in your modem pool. I _very strongly_ recommend you spend the extra money and get an integrated solution like a USR TotalControl or similar box. At the ISP I worked at, we were plagued with the individual modems hosing up, and then we got a TotalControl box. The best endorsement I can give it is that I don't know anything about it, because we never had to touch it. It just sat there and worked flawlessly. One final note: if you do decide to get into the ISP thing, I can't think of a better server platform for web hosting, mail, dns and other basic services than FreeBSD, as long as you get good hardware. The unix server market is so screwed up right now, I'd have a hard time recommending anything but PCs running either Linux or FreeBSD to anyone with a need for a small- to medium- sized server. Well, I hope my rant has been helpful. :) > > > > On Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:55:35 -0600 (CST), you wrote: > > > > >www.amazing.com used to have docs for setting up an ISP with a pentium > > >w/128 megs of ram and freeBSD, but they replaced it with some extremely > > >expensive SGI stuff. I'd like to start one with the BSD/Intel platform. > > >Do you know where I can obtain those plans? Perhaps someone has an old > > >copy of what amazing.com used to put out, or perhaps I'm writing to the > > >source? > > > > > >Thanks. > > > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > >with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > > > > -- > > Later > > Science (efinley@efinley.com) > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Jeffrey Dunitz | Ex-Crayon; | orpheus@avalon.net BOFH Emeritus, Avalon Networks | Network Engineer | Eagan, MN, USA http://www.avalon.net/~orpheus | EXi Corporation | 651-523-6992 (work) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
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