Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 18:06:41 -0800 From: "Chris H" <bsd-lists@BSDforge.com> To: "Farhan Khan" <khanzf@gmail.com> Cc: <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Message-ID: <46c6014e118501a00c4fb76e051cb880@udns.ultimatedns.net> In-Reply-To: <a0c0b8bd-966f-4fb5-134e-bb61e7a5155c@gmail.com>
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On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 20:27:10 -0500 "Farhan Khan" <khanzf@gmail=2Ecom> said >=20 > On 11/28/2017 07:19 PM, Chris H wrote: > > On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 18:34:24 -0500 "Farhan Khan" <khanzf@gmail=2Ecom> sai= d > >=20 > >> On 11/28/2017 05:11 PM, freebsd@johnea=2Enet wrote: > >> > On 2017-11-26 21:46, Cy Schubert wrote: > >> >> In message <307f8e8d0ad15d2d00e74a9b602c8c19@udns=2Eultimatedns=2Enet>,= =20 > >> "Chris > >> > H" writes: > >> >>> On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:11:43 -0800 "Cy Schubert"=20 > >> <Cy=2ESchubert@komquats=2Ecom> > >> > said > >> >>>> In message <20171126163259=2E6fb55366@gumby=2Ehomeunix=2Ecom>, RW via > >> > freebsd-hackers writes: > >> >>>>> On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 07:59:52 -0800 Cy Schubert wrote: > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>> Lastly=2E I'm not totally against games=2E My 4 and 5 year old=20 > >> grandkids > >> >>>>>> play games on game tablets=2E However I would never let my grandk= ids > >> >>>>>> even see what fortune spits out=2E Much of it was offensive=2E I wo= uld > >> >>>>>> have been ashamed had they seen some of the outputs=2E > >> > > This statement is factually incorrect=2E > >> > > It just is not the case=2E > >> > > I've received fortune in email every morning for about 14 years=2E= =20 > >> That's well > >> > over 5000 fortunes=2E I've never seen even vaguely offensive content=2E > >> > > The default settings do not deliver patently offensive content,=20 > >> period=2E > >> > >>>>> > >> >>>>> You have to try quite hard to find them, they aren't given by=20 > >> default, > >> >>>>> and: > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> $ fortune -o > >> >>>>> No fortunes found > >> >>>>> in /usr/share/games/fortune:/usr/local/share/games/fortune=2E > >> >>>> > >> > =2E=2E=2E > >> >>>> It's 2017=2E If Red Hat doesn't support fortune why should we? > >> >>> OK this is the 2nd time you've said that, and I'm afraid I'm going= =20 > >> to have > >> > to > >> >>> respond=2E :) > >> >>> FreeBSD is *not* Red Hat, nor any other "flavor" of Linux=2E Who=20 > >> cares if > >> > some > >> >>> other flavor of OS does, or does not "do it"=2E > >> >>> Sorry=2E I *greatly* appreciate that FreeBSD is /different/ than all= =20 > >> the > >> > Linux > >> >>> flavors, and would dearly hate that it felt that it should feel/be= =20 > >> "Linux > >> > lik > >> >>> e"=2E > >> >>> Over sensitive? Perhaps=2E But I simply couldn't resist=2E > >> >>> > >> >>> I'm done now=2E :) > >> >> > >> >> Of course FreeBSD isn't a Linux distro however RH has probably=20 > >> learned that > >> >> contentious issues like this aren't worth the risk and exposure and= =20 > >> the > >> >> cost of supporting such software=2E FreeBSD is a volunteer effort=2E > >> >> Unnecessary software still exacts a cost even in an environment=20 > >> like ours=2E > >> >> > >> > > I have to agree with the negative reaction to the Red Hat comparis= on=2E > >> > > Saying that FreeBSD obviously isn't linux doesn't address the=20 > >> concern over > >> > this comparison=2E > >> > > If you think fortune is a flame war lightning rod, maybe you=20 > >> haven't heard of > >> > systemd? > >> > > systemd is a Red Hat product=2E > >> > > There are many different reasons for the controversy over systemd=2E= =20 > >> One of > >> > them is that it removes the individuality of adopting distributions,= =20 > >> making > >> > them more uniform=2E The corporation in charge of that uniformity=20 > >> being Red Hat=2E > >> > > People don't like the elimination of fortune for the same reason= =20 > >> they didn't > >> > like the politically-correct-ification of beastie: It makes the OS= =20 > >> seem less > >> > like something made by individuals for individuals, and more like a= =20 > >> polished, > >> > "risk and exposure" averse, corporate product=2E In a word, dehumanize= d=2E > >> > > johnea > > Respectfully re-flowing your *disrespectful* Top Post > >> (I write this with a respectful tone in my voice=2E) > >> > >> With respect, FreeBSD is an operating system, not a person to be=20 > >> dehumanized=2E If you so strongly desire to run fortune, do a quick `pkg= =20 > >> install fortune`=2E You can continue to utilize this feature as you=20 > >> please=2E Problem solved=2E No one is censoring anyone's speech, just=20 > >> install it from the packages=2E It will likely take literally 2 seconds=2E > >> > >> Being relatively new to FreeBSD on my servers, I always found fortune= =20 > >> by default as unbecoming of an enterprise-class operating system=2E It= =20 > >> would be like having lolcats or cowsay on by default=2E > >> > >> You can continue to have the morning email with a fortune quote, you= =20 > >> will not lose that functionality=2E Everyone wins=2E > >> > > END re-flow > >=20 > > What I think many responding to this thread may not understand; is that > > for some (many?) of us, the source referred to, we have been cobbling o= n, > > and using for 30+ years=2E In fact fortune(6) (as Shawn noted earlier) > > *predates* FreeBSD; or more accurately; the BSD=2E Point being; fortune(6= ) > > (as well as it's growing data set) is a part of it's heritage=2E Call > > it sentimental if you like=2E But there's not a hell-of-a-lot of that > > heritage left=2E fortune' data set, for the most part, is quite harmless, > > and often, fairly witty=2E You must directly request the portion that > > (apparently) some might find offensive=2E But in reality, it's really > > only references to part of global history=2E I experienced far worse than > > this in my history classes in grade && high school=2E That being WWII > > films that graphically depicted the atrocities imposed/inflicted on > > so many the victims=2E Should we eliminate world history classes, because > > some students might not like what they hear, and see? Hell, why not > > eliminate school entirely then? > > The point I'd like to make here; is that fortune(6), and it's > > accompanying data sets are *not* harmful=2E They are one of the *few* > > bits left of the *original* BSD, and should be allowed to stay as-is, > > for posterity=2E Even tho many of the new-comers don't completely > > understand=2E > >=20 > > Thank you for listening=2E > >=20 > > --Chris Yet *another* reflow required due to *top posting* :( > Hi Chris, >=20 > Thank you for your response=2E I must disagree=2E >=20 > A) If your concern is heritage, people can look into the BSD history=2E=20 > This is readily available online=2E >=20 > B) If you feel there is utility, `pkg install fortune`=2E Everyone is happy= =2E >=20 > I am not certain how my previous email came off as rude=2E Perhaps a loss= =20 > of tone in my voice over email? If you knew me in person, you would know= =20 > that I did not intend any disrespect=2E Sorry=2E You seemed to have missed my inserts regarding your style of replies eg; top posting Which means; posting replies ABOVE the thread dialog=2E It completely corrupts the flow (see; thread) and makes it impossible to follow along in history -- especially from the archived FreeBSD mailing list=2E Answers to questions will never be found=2E Answers will be left dangling, and make no sense=2E=2E=2E So (technically, and historically) this has always been considered; rude=2E Nothing personal=2E Just felt it was important to point out=2E --Chris out=2E=2E=2E >=20 > Thanks! > Farhan END reflow > >=20 > >
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