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Date:      Tue, 7 Jun 2016 18:03:31 +0300
From:      Slawa Olhovchenkov <slw@zxy.spb.ru>
To:        Ronald Klop <ronald-lists@klop.ws>
Cc:        krad <kraduk@gmail.com>, "stable@freebsd.org" <stable@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: unbound and ntp issuse
Message-ID:  <20160607150331.GQ75630@zxy.spb.ru>
In-Reply-To: <op.yiozsxcpkndu52@ronaldradial.radialsg.local>
References:  <20160602122727.GB75625@zxy.spb.ru> <44lh2mi0k5.fsf@lowell-desk.lan> <20160603191523.GE75630@zxy.spb.ru> <44y46ie92p.fsf@lowell-desk.lan> <20160606135018.GL75630@zxy.spb.ru> <CALfReye2A8XBcjSg%2BB0Z7_j4HJsF9h7EAEjAW4Li2F5c=846YA@mail.gmail.com> <20160607084733.GM75630@zxy.spb.ru> <CALfReyc1GtDnfvVaso5h_sKqP19GZftL7-5SmGqBWEjmOE7XpA@mail.gmail.com> <20160607104335.GN75630@zxy.spb.ru> <op.yiozsxcpkndu52@ronaldradial.radialsg.local>

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On Tue, Jun 07, 2016 at 04:56:47PM +0200, Ronald Klop wrote:

> On Tue, 07 Jun 2016 12:43:35 +0200, Slawa Olhovchenkov <slw@zxy.spb.ru>  
> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Jun 07, 2016 at 11:35:59AM +0100, krad wrote:
> >
> >> Like i said you could configure ntpdate as well as ntpd, but give it a
> >> known good ip. It will only run once at boot, and ntpd will start after  
> >> so
> >> that can use the nice pool names.
> >>
> >> A slightly better way maybe to give ntpdate a server hostname like
> >> ntp-server and populated the hosts file with one of the ips from
> >> pool.ntp.org. You could then have a periodic script to check and update  
> >> the
> >> ip in the hosts every day, so it works over a reboot. The ip would
> >> obviously have to have an initial seed value, but you could work this  
> >> out
> >> progmatically at system configuration time with tools like ansible.
> >
> > What purpose don't do it by standart scripts from base systems?
> > Enforcing DNSSEC must be prevent this strange works on all systems
> > lack CMOS time.
> 
> 
> If the system lacks CMOS time it is hard to fix this problem. It is not  
> only about NTP+DNSSEC, but also about the lack of timekeeping. This  
> timekeeping problem can be solved by using a local ntp-server. That would  
> break the deadlock of NTP+DNSSEC.

ntpd_sync_on_start=yes
unbound start in relaxed mode until time sinced
after ntp synced unbound switcheed to DNSSEC mode.
ntp re-resolved ntp server addrees

What wrong with this?
Some software need modification, yes.
This is price for DNSSEC enforcing.

Many systems don't have CMOS by design.

> > I am not expert in sh scripting for this automation.
> >
> >> On 7 June 2016 at 09:47, Slawa Olhovchenkov <slw@zxy.spb.ru> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Tue, Jun 07, 2016 at 09:00:29AM +0100, krad wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Well there is a deadlock situation there so you have to relax one  
> >> of the
> >> > > conditions, for one time at least.
> >> > >
> >> > > Your best bet is to do a manual ntpdate against a fixed ip of known
> >> > > goodness. If you have a lot of machines you need to do this on, use
> >> > ansible
> >> > > or similar to do the heavy lifting for you. Ansible is best in my  
> >> opinion
> >> > > if you dont have anything setup as its quick to get going. It does
> >> > require
> >> > > python on the target machines so you would need to install that  
> >> first.
> >> > > Something like the following should get it working (as you dont  
> >> have dns
> >> > on
> >> > > the target machine, package fetches wont work, so i would tunnel a  
> >> squid
> >> > > proxy and let that handle all the internet stuff.
> >> > >
> >> > > add something like the following to your ssh_config
> >> > >
> >> > > Host *
> >> > > RemoteForward 31280 squid_server:3128
> >> > >
> >> > > then run some stuff like this (after installing ansible on your
> >> > > desktop/bastion host)
> >> > >
> >> > > ansible  -b -m raw -a '/usr/bin/env ASSUME_ALWAYS_YES=1 http_proxy=
> >> > > http://127.0.0.1:31280 /usr/sbin/pkg bootstrap -f' -u root -i
> >> > > <host_list_file> -kS --ask-su-pass
> >> > >
> >> > > ansible  -b -m raw -a 'env ASSUME_ALWAYS_YES=YES http_proxy=
> >> > > http://127.0.0.1:31280 pkg install python' -u root -i  
> >> <host_list_file>
> >> > > -kS --ask-su-pass
> >> > >
> >> > > ansible -m shell -a "ntpdate <good_ntp_server_ip>"  -kS  
> >> --ask-su-pass -i
> >> > > <host_list_file>
> >> > >
> >> > > from here on you should be able to start unbound and then ntpd eg
> >> > >
> >> > > ansible -m service -a "name=local_unbound state=restarted"
> >> > >  -kS --ask-su-pass -i <host_list_file>
> >> > > ansible -m service -a "name=ntpd state=restarted"  -kS  
> >> --ask-su-pass -i
> >> > > <host_list_file
> >> > >
> >> > > Alternatively you could just relax your dnssec rules on first boot  
> >> to
> >> > give
> >> > > ntp a chance. Probably much easier 8)
> >> >
> >> > How I am do it? I am don't touch dnssec rules and don't know unbound.
> >> > May be this is posible by startup scripts?
> >> > Also, some platforms lack of CMOS time, RPi, for example.
> >> >
> >> > > Also make sure you are using the '-g' flag on ntpd
> >> >
> >> > Yes, I am add `ntpd_sync_on_start=yes` to rc.conf.
> >> > I am suggest do it by checkbox in bsdinstall.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > On 6 June 2016 at 14:50, Slawa Olhovchenkov <slw@zxy.spb.ru> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > On Mon, Jun 06, 2016 at 09:33:02AM -0400, Lowell Gilbert wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > Slawa Olhovchenkov <slw@zxy.spb.ru> writes:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > On Fri, Jun 03, 2016 at 02:34:18PM -0400, Lowell Gilbert  
> >> wrote:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >> Slawa Olhovchenkov <slw@zxy.spb.ru> writes:
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >> > Default install with local_unbound and ntpd can't be  
> >> functional
> >> > with
> >> > > > > >> > incorrect date/time in BIOS:
> >> > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > >> > Unbound requred correct time for DNSSEC check and refuseing
> >> > queries
> >> > > > > >> > ("Jul 1 20:17:29 yellowrat unbound: [3444:0] info: failed  
> >> to
> >> > prime
> >> > > > > >> > trust anchor -- DNSKEY rrset is not secure . DNSKEY IN")
> >> > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > >> > ntpd don't have any numeric IP of ntp servers in ntp.conf  
> >> --
> >> > only
> >> > > > > >> > symbolic names like 0.freebsd.pool.ntp.org, as result --  
> >> can't
> >> > > > > >> > resolve (see above, about DNSKEY).
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >> I can't see how this would happen. DNSSEC doesn't seem to be
> >> > required
> >> > > > in
> >> > > > > >> a regular install as far as I can see. Certainly I don't  
> >> have any
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > I don't know reasson for enforcing DNSSEC in regular install.
> >> > > > > > I am just select `local_unbound` at setup time and enter
> >> > `127.0.0.1` as
> >> > > > > > nameserver address.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > That's not enough to configure unbound as a fully recursive DNS
> >> > > > > server.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > What I am missing?
> >> > > > Need to fix unbound setup scripts? bsdinstall scripts?
> >> > > > As I see unbound setup scripts detects 127.0.0.1 in resolv.conf  
> >> and
> >> > > > configured unbound as fully recursive DNS server.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > If your system gets its address through DHCP, it is probably
> >> > > > > getting DNS server addresses as well, and would work fine  
> >> *without*
> >> > your
> >> > > > > configuring any of the DNS state.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I am have static address and don't getting DNS server address.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > >> problem on any of my systems, and I've never configured an  
> >> anchor
> >> > on
> >> > > > the
> >> > > > > >> internal systems.
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >> > IMHO, ntp.conf need to include some numeric IP of public  
> >> ntp
> >> > > > servers.
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >> Ouch; that's a terrible idea, for several different reasons.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > What else?
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > All the normal reasons that hard-coding IP addresses is a bad  
> >> idea;
> >> > they
> >> > > > > can change, you're encouraging a lot of people to use the same  
> >> ones,
> >> > etc.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > And how to resolve this issuse:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > - default install with unbound as recursive DNS server (by default
> >> > > >   enforcing DNSSEC)
> >> > > > - ntp time synchronisation
> >> > > > - stale CMOS time (2008 year)
> >> > > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list
> >> > > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable
> >> > > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "
> >> > freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
> >> > > >
> >> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list
> > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable
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