Skip site navigation (1)Skip section navigation (2)
Date:      Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:11:20 -0600
From:      GB Clark II <gclarkii@vsservices.com>
To:        "Anthony Atkielski" <anthony@freebie.atkielski.com>, "Mike Meyer" <mwm@mired.org>
Cc:        <chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   Re: Feeding the Troll (Was: freebsd as a desktop ?)
Message-ID:  <01112817112006.13219@prime.vsservices.com>
In-Reply-To: <006101c17854$c6aa2570$0a00000a@atkielski.com>
References:  <15365.11290.211107.464324@guru.mired.org> <006101c17854$c6aa2570$0a00000a@atkielski.com>

next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
Hi,

I've put my comments inline so as not to lose the context.

I've also moved it to chat, this does not belong on the questions list...:)

On Wednesday 28 November 2001 15:36, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
> Mike writes:
> > You've said this before, but haven't done
> > anything to demonstrate it.
>
> I'm surprised that you think it requires demonstration.  UNIX was designed
> to service hundreds of users sitting in front of dumb terminals; it was not
> designed to drive a single resource-intensive GUI on dedicated hardware for
> a single user.  UNIX architecture puts a huge emphasis on multiple,
> independent users and processes, and very little emphasis on the kind of
> close integration and hardware dependency that a complex GUI requires. 
> These characteristics make for an excellent timesharing system or server,
> but they also make for a poor desktop environment.

The UNIX architecture of 30 years ago is long gone.  Most modern day 
UNIX/unix-like OS have everything need to run a single user just fine.

There is nothing that I know of in the Windows architecture (outside of 
having a graphics sub-system in the kernel) that makes it any better.
Please point those parts of the Windows architecture that make is superior
as a desktop system.

The only thing Windows has going for it is good salesmanship and many of
applications.

As far as a GUI goes, I'll put a SGI UNIX system aginst Windows any day of 
the week.

Also, not all UNIX/unix-like systems are created equal.  Comparing FreeBSD on 
a Duron-850 (my home box) to 4.2BSD running on a VAX (13 years ago) is like 
comparing apples and grapes.

> Windows is the other way around.  It has virtually no concept of multiple
> users and no provision for hardware independence.  Processes and users are
> not intended to work simultaneously on the same machine on completely
> different tasks.  As a result, it is very good for dedicated, single-user
> desktop use, but very poor for timesharing use and mediocre for server use.
>
> If you believe that UNIX is as good a desktop as Windows, then logically
> you must also believe that Windows is as good a server as UNIX.  An
> extension of this logic leads to the conclusion that the operating systems
> are essentially identical--but that obviously is not the reality.

Excuse me?  Which logic class shows that?

Group A = Server Platform
Group B = Desktop Platform

Platform 1 = A + B
Platform 2 = B

Thats almost like saying that if you have brown hair and are left handed,
all left handed people have brown hair.

Person 1 = BH + LH
Person 2 = LH

Just because something is in two groups does not make the two groups equal.

It almost smells like circular logic.

> > I've been making heavy desktop use of, and
> > supporting users making heavy desktop use of,
> > Unix since 1985. Nothing has happened during
> > that time that in any way indicated that Unix
> > is "incompatible with heavy desktopp use."
>
> Most operating systems can be stretched to fill all sorts of roles for
> which they weren't intended.  That doesn't make them good in such
> applications, nor does it make them superior to purpose-built operating
> systems for those same applications.
>
> It's interesting to see how hard people will try to prove or at least argue
> that their pet operating systems are the best for all purposes, or even
> adequate for all purposes.  I've never seen an operating system that can do
> it all, and I expect that I never will.
>

Again, outside of more applications, please tell me how MS Windows is a 
better desktop platform at the architectural level than FreeBSD.



Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?01112817112006.13219>