Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 12:35:45 -0800 From: Cy Schubert <cschuber@uumail.gov.bc.ca> To: Bill Fumerola <billf@chc-chimes.com> Cc: Cy Schubert <cschuber@uumail.gov.bc.ca>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, onemo@jps.net, jooji@webnology.com Subject: Re: ports/9864: make rblcheck use relay.orbs.org instead of dorkslayers.com Message-ID: <199902032036.MAA11706@passer.osg.gov.bc.ca> In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 02 Feb 1999 11:17:07 EST." <Pine.HPP.3.96.990202111536.13834A-100000@hp9000.chc-chimes.com>
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In message <Pine.HPP.3.96.990202111536.13834A-100000@hp9000.chc-chim es.com>, Bi ll Fumerola writes: > On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Cy Schubert wrote: > > > vix.com has added a Dialup Users List, similar to the RBL today, see > > http://maps.vix.com/dul/. The patch should include the following line > > after the relays.orbs.org line. > > So now dialup users aren't allowed to exist on the Internet or act as some > sort of server. I think some people think way too highly of themselves and > are playing God. > > I guess connectivity and running daemons can only come to those who have > all the toys. Dialup users are not the issue. Spam is! For example, dialup users who send out legitimate email are not the problem. Spammers who send out emails about the latest sex site, some get rich quick scheme, or from religious zealots seeking a following, IMO are the problem. The dialup users list is a list of dialup IP addresses that have been known to be used by spammers. I too am a dialup user (when not on my employer's business, and my employer seriously frowns on personal use of corporate assets for personal gain). I don't even use my employer's network for personal email. My employer may opt to sniff their network may even read personal email to friends and business associates. IMO the contents of my personal emails are none of their business, so I need to subscribe to an ISP, just like you do. My sendmail.cf defines my ISP's SMTP server as a smart relay. Therefore if my ISP's dial-up ports were to be listed in the DUL, it wouldn't matter. Also, clients of ISP's should use their ISP's SMTP relay to let it handle mail delivery just in case the remote SMTP server you are sending mail to is temporarily down. The dial-up user doesn't need to worry about mail delivery, the ISP's infrastructure will take care of it. That's why I pay the ISP I subscribe to the bucks, to take care of details I shouldn't need to worry about. Isn't this what the DUL is all about anyway? The ISP I use has not been listed as a site that forward's spam. Spammers have have used his site in the past, my ISP has received complaints and has long since remedied the situation. Not only did the spammers P.O. others on the Net, the load on one of his SMTP servers, caused by spammers using the open relay, brought it to its knees. As a result he (an NT person) and I spent a day upgrading it from 2.1.6 to 2.2.7 and implementing appropriate anti-spam measures (and an IPFW firewall just for good measure). His approach to network abuse is to have abusive customers find another ISP here in town. This policy has not affected his business, as his business has grown to become the biggest ISP here in Victoria, BC, over the past four years. I too have set up my main server at home as a relay. Using masquerading or a Reply-to header I can have replies sent back to the mailbox at my ISP. Also, dorkslayers.com had to move from Vancouver to a site in the States because the local telephone company believed it was an abuse of their network to provide an anti-spam database and to periodically test for open relays. I've received a bunch of emails from people who disagree with this policy. We should either replace dorkslayers in the port with orbs or remove the port completely, as dorkslayers doesn't exist anymore. My request has touched a sensitive nerve among some people. The politically correct solution might be to entirely remove the port from the ports collection, however since I'm not so politically correct, I'm willing to live with the port with only RBL (vix.com and orbs.org) and without DUL. If, however, the dorkslayers.com is not changed to orbs.org, it is useless and the port should be removed from the ports collection. As a footnote to this, I have received threats of civil action from ISP's and spammers who have used the sites I manage as relays and who have subsequently discovered that their attempts to rely now fail. So I am as emotionally motivated disallow spammers relay, just as many are emotionally charged to believe otherwise. BTW. When I receive junk mail at my home I either return it to sender or I throw it in the recycling bin. Stating that I need to receive spam means that I also have a moral obligation to read all of the junk mail that comes to my home. That's ridicules. Another analogy is that if I am obligated to receive spam and am obligated to read it, as many spammers believe that I should, then I should not surf the channels or go to the refrigerator when advertisements are shown on TV during my favorite TV shows, as I am obligated to watch the ads since I was watching the feature presentation. In our office of 10 people (we're all sysadmins for various clients so all of us have root on our internal mail relay), four of them wish to receive spam while six of us do not wish so. The internal relay only relays mail the 10 people in our office. It allows spam through to the four people who wish to receive spam and it does not relay spam to the six of us who have opted not to receive any spam. I don't believe that that people not within our office should be using our SMTP relay to relay email except for email destined for any of the 10 people in our office. If a client of ours wishes to block spam on a machine that our team manages for the client, it is the client's option and the client's decision. If the client doesn't wish to do so, that too is their option. We can only make recommendations to a client and the client has the final say. > > - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - > - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - > > > Regards, Phone: (250)387-8437 Cy Schubert Fax: (250)387-5766 Open Systems Group Internet: Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca ITSD Cy.Schubert@gems8.gov.bc.ca Province of BC To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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