Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 09:59:27 -0500 From: Robert Sexton <robert@kudra.com> To: alk@pobox.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: base64 Message-ID: <19990306095927.B53145@kudra.com> In-Reply-To: <14048.48864.918087.631128@avalon.east>; from Tony Kimball on Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 11:51:34PM -0600 References: <14048.10089.598598.919239@avalon.east> <36E07AEC.101F3467@newsguy.com> <14048.48864.918087.631128@avalon.east>
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On Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 11:51:34PM -0600, Tony Kimball wrote: > : Why? It doesn't even include a decent mail reader. If you are going > : to install a mail reader, anyway, you can install a mime extra... > > It is an issue of what the package is intended to be. I think of > FreeBSD is more than a kernel. Some substantial portion of its appeal > relative to Linux is that it is as a coherent OS, a general-purpose > platform, which incorporates the necessary facilities for ordinary > uses. As the set of ordinary uses changes over time, then in order > for FreeBSD to remain that, its facilities must change over time. But > perhaps FreeBSD does not intend to remain, without add-ons, a > sufficient platform for general-purpose use. You've touched upon what can only be called a religeous issue. Based on my take of of the user base, nobody here wants FreeBSD to be a general purpose platform 'out of the box'. The consensus seems to be that the minimal system is quite popular. I for one don't want to schlep around a lot of mime code that my news machine will never run. Likewise for uucp :-) Its not just that we've got to support the old machine crowd, but that bloat is in general bad. One point I'd add is that Linux without add ons is pretty much unusable. Since its a kernel, you need add ons to even log in. FreeBSD is a coherent OS because its a complete package out of the box. We have a usable base system. And there's no dispute of which things are add ons and which aren't. Attempts to expand the base system have met with what I'd consider justified resistance. > MHO: If the included mail reader is not 'decent', throw it away. Oh, > replacing UCB mail is socially difficult, but such compunctions seem > to be damaging the future of the product, its coherent vision, and its > ability to keep up with the times. This is the path that has made linux such a mess. There is _no_way_ that FreeBSD could even include a mail reader that would make most people happy. Thats why we have the ports tree. If we switched to elm for instance, that would be a wasted megabye of disk for me, and many other people. Can you say 'Creeping Featureism?' If I may be so presumptious, I'd say that the coherent vision is that we have the smallest base distribution which makes up a complete system, and that the rest can be convieniently flavored to taste. > I still think FreeBSD should be packaged as a layered system, a group > of functional complexes serving different areas. And sooner rather > than later, for as it grows the components of what should be distinct > modules become increasingly interdependent. This the solution to the problem that could make everybody happy. So hows it coming along, Jordan? :-) -- Robert Sexton, robert@kudra.com "No one told me that it could not be done, and so I did it." - Jack Kloepfer Read the Newton FAQ! <http://www.kudra.com/newton/newton-faq>; To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
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