Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 17:56:31 -0500 From: Damien Tougas <damien@carroll.com> To: Brad Knowles <brad.knowles@skynet.be> Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@ofug.org>, Tyler K McGeorge <treznor@sunflower.com>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Looking for Yoda Message-ID: <20010311175629.A368@sprig.tougas.net> In-Reply-To: <v04220805b6d1796cec93@[194.78.241.123]>; from brad.knowles@skynet.be on Sun, Mar 11, 2001 at 08:20:22PM %2B0100 References: <20010310230724.A292@sprig.tougas.net> <000601c0a9f9$31b88120$103b7c18@palisor.yi.org> <xzp1ys4v3iv.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no> <v04220805b6d1796cec93@[194.78.241.123]>
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On Sun, Mar 11, 2001 at 08:20:22PM +0100, Brad Knowles wrote: > The problem with these PRs is that they assume you're already an >experienced programmer, and that you understand the context in which >the patch is being made. Unfortunately, those two things are >precisely what programmers new to C almost certainly don't have. >Even if they're otherwise experienced programmers, simply dumping >them in the deep end of the ocean and telling them to "sink or swim" >is likely to end up with most of them sinking fairly rapidly. I have to agree with you. I have looked at these many times with the intent that maybe this would be a good place for me to start, but never really go very far. There always seemed like there was a very high barrier to entry. Perhaps a problem with a SCSI device (which I don't have), which deals with the kernel (which I am not ready for), and requires that I understand the inner workings of FreeBSD intimately (which takes a significant amount of time, even for an experienced programmer). >> If you're looking for something more long-term, try this page: >> >> http://www.freebsd.org/projects/ > > Moof! I looked at this page. There's all sorts of stuff here, >but it's things like the Ganger & Platt "softupdates" papers, the >page describing the vinum logical volume manager, a link to the page >for the Coda distributed filesystem, the pages describing the efforts >to port FreeBSD to Alpha, PowerPC, SPARC, and other hardware >platforms, etc.... > > Unfortunately, I didn't see a single thing here that would be >appropriate for an experienced programmer to use as their reason for >introducing themselves to C, or as a project that a a new programmer >could jump into and start programming for the first time. Again, I agree with you. I have thought of this before; what am I to do, e-mail Greg Lehey, and tell him that I want to learn C, and that I think cutting my teeth on Vinum would be a good start? I think that it would be rather inappropriate. I thought (and thus the reason for my original post) that it would be better to post the question to a mailing list and see what pops up. I would rather someone respond to me and say, 'Hey, we could use a junior guy here on stuff we are working on, would you like to join in?', instead of me trying to pry myself into something where I might be unwelcome. > Much better would be a page that had links to descriptions of >projects that have been envisaged by members of the FreeBSD project >as being necessary or desirable, but which have not yet been taken on >by someone, or where new programmers (or experienced programmers that >are new to C) would be able to jump in and start doing work. > > In other words, a page with links to descriptions, >specifications, and maybe even some designs for programs (with some >data flow diagrams, etc...), but where there hasn't yet been any code >produced. Now this is something what I would be interested in. I mean, there has to be lots of stuff that is easy, a little more mundane for an experienced FreeBSD programmer, but perfect for someone who was just starting out. For example, I would be perfectly happy writing makefiles, tweaking/writing a man page, or adding a tiny new feature/switch to an existing utility. I mean, someone had to write the little programs such as echo or cal. There must be other things of similar calibre that need to be done, it can't all be complicated stuff. A web page like you are talking about would be good, but I'm not sure exactly how much easy stuff there is that is designed but not implemented. I think that working on the easy portions of more complicated stuff would also be a very valuable learning experience. Of course, in order to be able to do that sort of stuff, one has to pretty much hook up with an existing developer and get these small things assigned and done quickly as they come up. This type of relationship would obviously not work that well for everyone, but that's ok, I wouldn't want to work with someone who thinks I am just a burden. > Myself, I took a Numerical Methods class when I was a Junior in >college, and many programming languages were allowed for this class >but C was not on the list. With the instructors permission (and >cooperation from the guy who was grading the programs), I was allowed >to use C, while everyone else was using Pascal, FORTRAN, or Basic. I went to University and got my degree in Civil Engineering. We actually did a course on programming (Fortran), some physics, and tons of courses in math, calculus, and linear algebra. We then took a course which focused on taking all of that math, calculus, and linear algebra and writing computer programs to solve those problems. I loved it, and couldn't get enough. In fact, I loved it so much I left the field of Civil Engineering 3 years ago to pursue my career in computers. A year later, I discovered FreeBSD, I was instantly hooked, and within another 12 months moved the US to accept a position as a Senior Unix (FreeBSD) systems administrator. The next step for me is to jump in to learning how to program on this system. -- Damien Tougas Systems Administrator Carroll-Net, Inc. http://www.carroll.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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