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Date:      Fri, 4 Oct 2013 09:01:58 +0200
From:      Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@FreeBSD.org>
To:        Erwin Lansing <erwin@FreeBSD.org>
Cc:        ports@freebsd.org, Fernando =?iso-8859-1?Q?Apestegu=EDa?= <fernando.apesteguia@gmail.com>
Subject:   Re: [HEADSUP] Staging, packaging and more
Message-ID:  <20131004070158.GE72453@ithaqua.etoilebsd.net>
In-Reply-To: <20131004065753.GV82824@droso.dk>
References:  <20131003084814.GB99713@ithaqua.etoilebsd.net> <524D6059.2000700@FreeBSD.org> <524DD120.4000701@freebsd.org> <20131003203501.GA1371@medusa.sysfault.org> <CAGwOe2Ye2MLz3QpyMW3wyN9ew%2BiNnTETS1oOi_%2B8dPehUcWa0w@mail.gmail.com> <20131004061833.GA1367@medusa.sysfault.org> <20131004063259.GC72453@ithaqua.etoilebsd.net> <20131004065753.GV82824@droso.dk>

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On Fri, Oct 04, 2013 at 08:57:53AM +0200, Erwin Lansing wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 04, 2013 at 08:32:59AM +0200, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please no devel packages.
> > > > >
> > > > > Seconded.
> > > >
> > > > What's wrong with devel packages?
> > >=20
> > > It complicates things for developers and custom software on
> > > FreeBSD. The typical situation that I see on most Linux platforms is a
> > > lot of confusion by people, why their custom software XYZ does not
> > > properly build - the most common answer: they forgot to install a
> > > tremendous amount of dev packages, containing headers, build tools and
> > > whatnot.
> > > On FreeBSD, you can rely on the fact that if you installed e.g. libGL,
> > > you can start building your own GL applications without the need to
> > > install several libGL-dev, libX11-dev, ... packages first.
> > > This is something, which I personally see as a big plus of the FreeBSD
> > > ports system and which makes FreeBSD attractive as a development plat=
form.
> > >=20
> >=20
> > On the other ends, that makes the package fat for embedded systems, tha=
t also
> > makes some arbitrary runtime conflicts between packages (because they b=
oth
> > provide the same symlink on the .so, while we could live with 2 version=
 at
> > runtime), that leads to tons of potential issue while building locally,=
 and
> > that makes having sometime insane issues with dependency tracking. Why =
having
> > .a, .la, .h etc in production servers? It could greatly reduce PBI size=
, etc.
> >=20
> > Personnaly I do have no strong opinion in one or another direction. Sho=
uld we be
> > nicer with developers? with end users? with embedded world? That is the=
 question
> > to face to decide if -devel packages is where we want to go or not.
> >=20
>=20
> If we chose to go down that path, at least we should chose a different
> name as we've used the -devel suffix for many years for developmental
> versions.
>=20
> I must agree that it is one of the things high on my list of things that
> irritate me with several Linux distributions but I can see the point for
> for embedded systems as well.  But can't we have both?  Create three
> packages, a default full package and split packages of -bin, -lib,
> and even -doc.  My first though twas to make the full package a
> meta-package that would install the split packages in the background,
> but that would probably be confusing for users at the end of the day, so
> rather just have it be a real package.
>=20
I do like that idea very much, and it is easily doable with stage :)

regards,
Bapt

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