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Date:      Wed, 03 Jul 2002 02:36:38 +0200
From:      Jan Lentfer <Jan.Lentfer@web.de>
To:        Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com>, freebsd-alpha <freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: List of ports that can be compiled with compaq-cc
Message-ID:  <3D224716.901@web.de>
References:  <3D21F1C8.2010708@web.de> <15650.6127.427432.57976@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> <3D22188C.2000603@web.de> <3D222E25.62D5E4D0@mindspring.com> <3D222EF3.8070700@web.de> <3D223E91.A71CC743@mindspring.com>

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Terry Lambert schrieb:

[...] Read and agreed

>  
>
>You appear to want a lot of people to install the Compaq tools
>on a minority platform, and spend a lot of effort verifying
>ports on your behalf, just so they can tag this fact in a
>comment in the "README" or Makefile for a port, and obtain no
>benefit from the effort, other than the tiny number of people
>who read these files before executing "make" on them, in order
>to build a given port.
>  
>
Hmm, well I didn't really give that a deep thought yet. It was an 
*idea*. I just thought that there are certain ports that could benefit 
from being compiled with the ccc. I did not have any idea about how to 
integrate that into FreeBSD, because maybe I know too little about the 
interiors of FreeBSD and the ports system. As said, it was an idea, not 
more.
But on the other hand I had to read the Makfile of openssh-portable, too 
to find out make -DOPENSSH_OVERWRITE_BASE actually does what I want, 
nobody on security said it was bad to read the Makefile (a lot there 
seem to expect you to)

>With respect, the single most important thing that makes effort
>happen with regard to Open Source is working code.  I've proven
>this over and over again.  FreeBSD is around because 386BSD code
>*worked*, thanks to my efforts with the patchkit.  OpenLDAP is
>around because of the patches that I both collected into a single
>whole, and made on my own, as an experiment to prove this thesis;
>on its own, the University of Michigan LDAP code needed to *work*
>before it gained wide acceptance.  Eric Raymond can take his
>"The Cathedral and the Bazaar" voo-doo and stuff them.  I have
>mathematical models.  I can *prove* my thesis over 9 Open Source
>Software projects in which I have participated directly, and over
>another half a dozen which I've analyzed.
>  
>
I think I did not say a single word against open source or that in first 
place code should work, did I? You are making a lot more out of it than 
I ever wanted. The thing is, there is code (like biology/emboss) that 
can be very easily compiled with the ccc and you gain a lot of advantage 
- that's all in my eyes. The way this *knowledge* is spread - I don't 
really care. If there is a way to automize it within FreeBSD/Alpha - 
superb - I didn't know but I am willing to learn and I am willing to 
contribute. If the *way to go* in FreeBSD is different, I will follow 
the FreeBSD-way.

>If you want something that's going to result in ports available
>for you, which can be compiled out-of-the-box with the Compaq
>compiler, the only approach that's going to work consistantly
>is going to be the approach I've described.  The approach that
>you described will not result in what you say you want to have
>happen.  The emergent properties of your approach is a significant
>division of effort.
>
I didn't say I expected  out-of-the-box ccc-ports! I had an simple idea, and you it seems, have bad manners: I am pretty new to FreeBSD and especially Alpha (2 days now). Sorry for trying to bring in ideas. 
You could have told and explained *the way to go* with out trying to be a principal.

>If you don't care about what happens, and you just want a project,
>then, by all means, declare one at Sourceforge, and have it get
>nowhere, just like all other non-working projects proceed to
>failure after declaration without working code.
>  
>
I never said that I don't care what happens, why the heck are you so 
hostile? I had an idea.... which is an idea and will stay an idea..... 
 it wasn't written in stone nor want I to overthrow world order (nor 
freebsd order) nor anything, it was meant as initiation - not as an 
thought-through-all-the-way-fnished-concept.

Again, sorry if I am not very firm with hows-and-whos of FreeBSD, but 
please be a little more easy on me.....


Jan





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