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Date:      Sun, 6 Mar 2016 22:04:09 -0800
From:      Richard Elling <richard.elling@gmail.com>
To:        zfs@lists.illumos.org
Cc:        developer@lists.open-zfs.org, "smartos-discuss@lists.smartos.org" <smartos-discuss@lists.smartos.org>, developer <developer@open-zfs.org>, illumos-developer <developer@lists.illumos.org>, omnios-discuss <omnios-discuss@lists.omniti.com>, Discussion list for OpenIndiana <openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org>, "zfs-discuss@list.zfsonlinux.org" <zfs-discuss@list.zfsonlinux.org>, "freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org" <freebsd-fs@freebsd.org>, "zfs-devel@freebsd.org" <zfs-devel@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: [zfs] [developer] Re: [smartos-discuss] an interesting survey -- the zpool with most disks you have ever built
Message-ID:  <6E2B77D1-E0CA-4901-A6BD-6A22C07536B3@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CALi05Xxm9Sdx9dXCU4C8YhUTZOwPY%2BNQqzmMEn5d0iFeOES6gw@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <95563acb-d27b-4d4b-b8f3-afeb87a3d599@me.com> <CACTb9pxJqk__DPN_pDy4xPvd6ETZtbF9y=B8U7RaeGnn0tKAVQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAJjvXiH9Wh%2BYKngTvv0XG1HtikWggBDwjr_MCb8=Rf276DZO-Q@mail.gmail.com> <56D87784.4090103@broken.net> <A5A6EA4AE9DCC44F8E7FCB4D6317B1D203178F1DD392@SH-MAIL.ISSI.COM> <5158F354-9636-4031-9536-E99450F312B3@RichardElling.com> <CALi05Xxm9Sdx9dXCU4C8YhUTZOwPY%2BNQqzmMEn5d0iFeOES6gw@mail.gmail.com>

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> On Mar 6, 2016, at 9:06 PM, Fred Liu <fred.fliu@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> 2016-03-06 22:49 GMT+08:00 Richard Elling =
<richard.elling@richardelling.com =
<mailto:richard.elling@richardelling.com>>:
>=20
>> On Mar 3, 2016, at 8:35 PM, Fred Liu <Fred_Liu@issi.com =
<mailto:Fred_Liu@issi.com>> wrote:
>>=20
>> Hi,
>>=20
>> Today when I was reading Jeff's new nuclear weapon -- DSSD D5's CUBIC =
RAID introduction,
>> the interesting survey -- the zpool with most disks you have ever =
built popped in my brain.
>=20
> We test to 2,000 drives. Beyond 2,000 there are some scalability =
issues that impact failover times.
> We=E2=80=99ve identified these and know what to fix, but need a real =
customer at this scale to bump it to
> the top of the priority queue.
>=20
> [Fred]: Wow! 2000 drives almost need 4~5 whole racks!=20
>>=20
>> For zfs doesn't support nested vdev, the maximum fault tolerance =
should be three(from raidz3).
>=20
> Pedantically, it is N, because you can have N-way mirroring.
> =20
> [Fred]: Yeah. That is just pedantic. N-way mirroring of every disk =
works in theory and rarely happens in reality.
>=20
>> It is stranded if you want to build a very huge pool.
>=20
> Scaling redundancy by increasing parity improves data loss protection =
by about 3 orders of=20
> magnitude. Adding capacity by striping reduces data loss protection by =
1/N. This is why there is
> not much need to go beyond raidz3. However, if you do want to go =
there, adding raidz4+ is=20
> relatively easy.
>=20
> [Fred]: I assume you used stripped raidz3 vedvs in your storage mesh =
of 2000 drives. If that is true, the possibility of 4/2000 will be not =
so low.
>            Plus, reslivering takes longer time if single disk has =
bigger capacity. And further, the cost of over-provisioning spare disks =
vs raidz4+ will be an deserved=20
>             trade-off when the storage mesh at the scale of 2000 =
drives.

Please don't assume, you'll just hurt yourself :-)
For example, do not assume the only option is striping across raidz3 =
vdevs. Clearly, there are many
different options.
 -- richard





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