Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 12:23:45 -0400 From: Paul Mather <pmather@vt.edu> To: Jeremy Chadwick <jdc@koitsu.org> Cc: freebsd-stable List <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>, Scott Sipe <cscotts@gmail.com> Subject: Re: ZFS Panic after freebsd-update Message-ID: <C13462A8-88DC-4EEF-9356-CF655B8EA8E8@vt.edu> In-Reply-To: <20130701154925.GA64899@icarus.home.lan> References: <CA%2B30O_P7=3FanLaxjHQ71grqWLfTxNJXb6kP5-eWYWEYZFoVtw@mail.gmail.com> <20130701154925.GA64899@icarus.home.lan>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
On Jul 1, 2013, at 11:49 AM, Jeremy Chadwick <jdc@koitsu.org> wrote: > On Mon, Jul 01, 2013 at 11:35:30AM -0400, Scott Sipe wrote: >> *** Sorry for partial first message! (gmail sent after multiple = returns >> apparently?) *** >>=20 >> Hello, >>=20 >> I have not had much time to research this problem yet, so please let = me >> know what further information I might be able to provide. >> [[...]] >> Any thoughts? >=20 > Thoughts: >=20 > [[..]] > Of course when I see lines like this: >=20 > Trying to mount root from zfs:zroot >=20 > ...this greatly diminishes any chances of "live debugging" on the > system. It amazes me how often I see this come up on the lists -- = people > who have ZFS problems but use ZFS for their root/var/tmp/usr. I wish > that behaviour would stop, as it makes debugging ZFS a serious PITA. > This comes up on the list almost constantly, sad panda. I'm not sure why it amazes you that people are making widespread use of = ZFS. You could make the same argument that people shouldn't use UFS2 = journaling on their file systems because bugs in the implementation = might make debugging journaled UFS2 file systems "a serious PITA." The = point is that there are VERY compelling reasons why people might want to = use ZFS for root/var/tmp/usr/etc. (pooled storage; easy snapshots; etc.) = and there should come a time when a given file system is "generally = regarded as safe." I'd say the time for ZFS came when they removed the = big disclaimer from the boot messages. If ZFS is dangerous, they should = reinstate the "not ready for production" warning. Until they do, I = think it's unfair to castigate people for using ZFS universally. Isn't it a recurring theme on freebsd-current and freebsd-stable that = more people need to use features so they can be debugged in realistic = environments? If you're telling them, "don't use that because it makes = debugging harder," how are they supposed to get debugged and hence = improved? :-) Cheers, Paul.=
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?C13462A8-88DC-4EEF-9356-CF655B8EA8E8>