Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:12:16 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" <fullermd@futuresouth.com> To: Mike <mike@seidata.com> Cc: Chuck Robey <chuckr@glue.umd.edu>, John Birrell <jb@cimlogic.com.au>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: the place of vi Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980414080743.23505A-100000@shell.futuresouth.com> In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980414081302.5431A-100000@seidata.com>
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On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Mike wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Chuck Robey wrote:
>
> > Some (many?) don't use vi. I do, though, but I just mount /usr to
> > exit rc.conf. Do you have a funny set up that doesn't let you
> > boot single user, then:
>
> Many I know either 1.) don't use vi or 2.) just use it as a backup. No...
> the people that don't use vi aren't sinful masses, they're mostly power
> users who have found that even vi can't meet all their needs. :) Emacs,
> for example, give you nifty features like opening multiple files in
> different windows and easily modifying them side by side...
Which mysteriously fails to work when you lose /usr, so it's not too
helpful.
> > Though, having lived through a couple bad panics, it would have been
> > nice not to have to rely on my weak knowledge of ed. I would guess
>
> However, it's not like we haven't *all* been forwarned though, right? I
> mean... most every system administration book I've ever read has dealt
> with what to do when you need to boot in single user mode and can't access
> your favorite editor... it's kind of like a DOS user being able to use
> copy con should the need ever arise. Granted, you might not usually edit
> files this way, but... rather than bitching that this is a pain we should
> all be thankful the the great gawds of unix time have ensured we have an
> editor at all when in single user mode. ;)
Agreed. What we're *NOT* agreed on is what editor it should be. ed is
only marginally more useful than echo and sed.
> I guess what my thoughts boil down to is as follows: why did a thread like
> this ever get started in 'hackers'? I mean... a real FreeBSD hacker
> would either master ed or expiriment with compiling a non-static vi.
Why stop with mastering ed? Just go ahead and master the aforementioned
echo/sed combination. Heck, why stop there? All you need is echo and
/dev/{s|w}d0s1a. Actually, why add all the complexity? Just wire up an
adaptor to hook a VT100 up to the IDE connection on the hard drive, and do
everything directly...
I guess my point is I agree with what you're saying, but not with what
you're SAYING. I think the line should be drawn at vi, not below it.
What're you going to say to a poor non-hacker when their system fails to
mount their /usr partition, and you can just BARELY convince them that vi
is usable? What're the chances that your recent convert from Windows is
going to believe in FreeBSD's superiority when they have no recource but
to use ed when they make one small mistake somewhere??
> ---
> Mike Hoskins Kettering University
> SEI Data Network Services, Inc. CS/CE Dual-Major Program
> mike@seidata.com hosk0094@kettering.edu
> http://www.seidata.com http://www.kettering.edu
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* fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller *
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