Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 12:37:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Scott <joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu> To: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org> Cc: "Jason C. Wells" <jcwells@nwlink.com>, "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.osd.bsdi.com>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: No port of Opera? (Was: ((FreeBSD : Linux) :: (OS/2 : Windows))) Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0007071219290.19763-100000@pebkac.owp.csus.edu> In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000707095841.047c6ee0@localhost>
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On Fri, 7 Jul 2000, Brett Glass wrote: > At 01:12 AM 7/7/2000, Jason C. Wells wrote: > > >I have read this sort of stuff before. I just wanted to check in on > >Jordan's behalf so that he knows there are FreeBSDites who are in favor of > >the emulation. > > As I've said before, the emulation is a useful workaround for some of > them. BUT THEY SHOULD NOT RELY ON IT IN THE LONG RUN! Right now, alas, > the emulation is driving applications vendors away from creating native > ports, which in turn is hurting the platform and increasing reliance > upon the emulator. This is not a good thing. To some degree I agree with what you are saying. Historically emulating/binary compat/etc has not solved the problem of increased use for an OS. Somedays I really do miss OS/2, the only reason I'm not using it now is because I got into FreeBSD :-) In the long run, yes, native apps are the goal, and people are pushing for that (BSDi, users who have purchasing power, etc). That being said however, I'm not sure that I agree with your conclusion above. Let's take the Opera example. If we took away Linux binary compatibility do you think that it would make any difference? My feelings are that if the Opera folks are strapped for resources for a FreeBSD version, they wouldn't suddenly run out and make a FreeBSD version because we can't run it all, the needed additional resources would not suddenly appear, Linux compat or not. I know that you response is that we should be pushing a BSD compatibility layer for other OS's. I think this is a neat idea, and would certainly be neat to see, with the idea that it would help spread the use of BSD. Unfortunately I do not have the skills needed to code such a beast. I believe that most people who do (and have the time) are more interested in working on BSD directly. > >Stallman, GPL, none of that matters to me as I consider > >the usefulness of my OS of choice. > > It should matter to you, because it is the thing that most seriously > threatens your ability to choose in the future. Doesn't this only matter if you are digging into the code or redistributing it? For a normal end user, does this really matter? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of the GPL, but everything needs to be looked at from different perspectives to see where others are coming from (ie end users). > >I am sure I could write a great dissertation on the matter. One fact > >remains, after three years of dire warning FreeBSD still seems to be doing > >quite well. My -questions traffic is twice what it used to be. > > Alas, FreeBSD's market share relative to that of Linux appears to be > going DOWN, not up. And the situation vis-a-vis native ports is > terrible: after three years, FreeBSD has LOST, not gained, native > ports. This is a serious threat to the health of the platform. I've > done what I could to promote the BSDs, and in fact have made some > serious progress in this area (though certain folks -- ahem! -- still > seem reluctant to acknowedge it). But emulation is the greatest thorn > in FreeBSD's side as a platform. Hummmmm. I wonder if this is also a perspective thing. From where I stand (which is a different place you do of course) FreeBSD has been doing much better. I'm not sure to which products you are refering that no longer offer native FreeBSD versions (probably something I don't use I would guess). I know that BSDi is working hard with vendors to encourage,assist,etc native ports. It's my understanding that you worked with O'Reilly to get the BSD track going at the Open Source Con this month. As someone who went last year and is going again this year I think this will be very good exposure for BSD. --- Joseph Scott joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu The Office Of Water Programs - CSU Sacramento To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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