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Date:      Thu, 3 Feb 2000 17:29:28 +0100 (MET)
From:      "Pedro J. Lobo" <pjlobo@euitt.upm.es>
To:        "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
Cc:        Jasper Wallace <jasper@ivision.co.uk>, Mike Nowlin <mike@argos.org>, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: 802.1Q VLANs
Message-ID:  <Pine.OSF.4.21.0002031711230.1338-100000@haddock.euitt.upm.es>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0002031052090.479-100000@sasami.jurai.net>

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On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Matthew N. Dodd wrote:

>On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Pedro J. Lobo wrote:
>> if_fxp does have to be patched. You have to tell the card not to drop
>> frames with errors (oversized frames among them) or you won't receive
>> packets with sizes from 1497 to 1500 bytes (remember that 802.1Q adds 4
>> bytes to each frame). Then you have to drop by hand undersized frames and
>> frames with crc errors.
>
>If the size of our header increases then the payload we can carry
>decreases.

But then you won't be able to interact with other machines that send
1500-byte frames, which are perfectly legal. Keep reading...

>Violating ethernet frame lengths doesn't strike me as a good idea.

But you *aren't* violating ethernet frame lengths. 802.1Q frames *can* be
4 bytes longer than traditional ethernet frames. One of the strengths of
802.1Q (IMHO) is that its frames can coexist with traditional ethernet
frames even in the same wire (cable, hub, etc.). The machines that doesn't
recognize 802.1Q frames see them as "unknown type" frames, or as oversized
frames, and simply ignore them.

You can even think of another scenario (which is what I have here): you
can configure one port in a switch as a "tagged" port (i.e. it will expect
and transmit 802.1Q frames) and another one as a "untagged" port (i.e. a
traditional ethernet port, an both of them can belong to the same
VLAN. When a machine plugged to the untagged port sends a 1500-byte frame,
it will appear at the tagged port 4 bytes longer. You can check it with a
sniffer. And it is perfectly legal.

The 802.1Q standard does allow frames with those 4 extra bytes, and the
machines that "speak" 802.1Q must be able to recognize those long frames
as valid.

>Besides, there is little we can do about hardware that doesn't allow us to
>send/receive larger packets.

You are completely right on this. Not all cards will be able to support
802.1Q. The Etherexpress Pro/100 (fxp driver) certainly is. I don't know
about other cards, but I suspect that many of them will offer you the
posibility of send and receive extra-large frames.

Cheers,

	Pedro.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Pedro José Lobo Perea                   Tel:    +34 91 336 78 19
Centro de Cálculo                       Fax:    +34 91 331 92 29
E.U.I.T. Telecomunicación               e-mail: pjlobo@euitt.upm.es
Universidad Politécnica de Madrid
Ctra. de Valencia, Km. 7                E-28031 Madrid - España / Spain



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