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Date:      Wed, 22 Nov 2000 21:54:57 -0700 (MST)
From:      Fred Clift <fclift@verio.net>
To:        Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
Cc:        Brandon Fosdick <bfoz@glue.umd.edu>, Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group <Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG, Roelof Osinga <roelof@eboa.com>
Subject:   Re: Dangerously Dedicated 
Message-ID:  <Pine.BSF.4.21.0011222137580.1193-100000@vespa.orem.iserver.com>
In-Reply-To: <200011192210.eAJMAWG03651@billy-club.village.org>

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On Sun, 19 Nov 2000, Warner Losh wrote:

> spec.  FreeBSD is lying to the BIOS with the MBR that we put onto the
> disk, and that causes problems.
> 

Of course, the mbr can be fixed with a quick application of fdisk.  The
problem boils down to wether an fdisk partition is allowd to contain the
sector that has the MBR in it.  You can have 'not quite as dangerously'
(my words, no this isn't a third way to install)  dedicated mode by
putting boot1 on the disk and fixing the partition table on it to be
correct.  Theoretically, you still might find a pc-bios that is trying to
be smart and demonstrates it's failings by getting confused over the mbr
being included in an fdisk partition.  

Other than that, there really isn't much difference, from a bios point of
view between  dedicated-with-fixed-fdisk table and 'regular'
installs...  

As an aside, I think that there is probably still a strong desire on many
people's part to have dedicated installs.  Most of them are only to serve
some notion of what is 'neat' or 'correct' or 'proper'.  This is enough
reason, in my mind, to not go out of the way to make it not work, as seems
to be the sentiment lately.  If some new development were to significantly
increase functionality, at the expense of hosing dedicated installs, then
it might be worth getting rid of dedicated installs.  But, if it's just to
cut down on the number of questions about it, I wouldn't think it
justified.

Now that there exist tools to easily automate installs in non-dedicated
mode, we'll be switching our systems over to non-dedicated mode...  The
lack of these tools has been the hitch for more than just me, judging by
the email I've recieved about it...

So, perhaps somthing in the handbook after where says 'dangeroulsy
dedicated' isn't the way to go unless you know you need it.... that reads 
 
'use fdisk -foo and then disklabel -bar' to get a proper install that will
work with most any hardware.... without having to do it interactively in
sysinstall 

(yes, I know that you can script sysinstall).

At any rate, this has been discussed A LOT recently.  Any speculation on
why it has come up so much recently compared to the not-to-distant past?

Fred


--
Fred Clift - fclift@verio.net -- Remember: If brute 
force doesn't work, you're just not using enough.



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