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Date:      Mon, 26 Feb 1996 15:41:43 -0700 (MST)
From:      Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
To:        kelly@yarmouth (Sean Kelly)
Cc:        kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...)
Message-ID:  <199602262241.PAA02866@phaeton.artisoft.com>
In-Reply-To: <9602261957.AA17964@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> from "Sean Kelly" at Feb 26, 96 12:57:11 pm

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> *everything* except the menu bar, which is where you need it (to
> indicate that those are active sites and not just labels).

The menu bar is conceptually a single button with multiple active areas.
So it has a border like you want to indicate it is clickable.

> It's impossible to tell at a glance which are the selected or the
> deselected buttons in a group of radio or checkbuttons.  Does ``out''
> indicate selected or does ``in''?

"In".  Just like the lids on your drink cups and the punch holes in
your election ballots.

In addition, Motif 2.0 has the ability to put a "mark" in a selected
item as well as shadowing from the upper-left (just like MS-Windows).

> The difference between radio and checkbuttons is undersubtle.

Radio buttons are round and checkbuttons aren't.  In addition, the
interface guidelines require you to group-box sets of radio buttons.
If you don't, your application is non-conforming.

> Finally, the scrollbar sucks: the user comes to understand that
> repeated clicking in the trough area goes through pages, so he
> happily pages along reading the material when suddenly, clicks
> don't work anymore.  What happened?  The elevator/thumb reached
> the cursor, dislodging his train of thought from the tracks of flow.

Or the user was clicking in the middle instead of at the bottom (/top)
so that the thumb would stop when it cot there (ie: on purpose).

8-).

Motif 2.0 has the ability to have an active "page down" area above the
down arrow, and another to "page up" below the up arrow.

I agree that the location of the arrow buttons on scrollbars is annoying.
I would prefer that up and down were adjacent, like NeXTStep, so I don't
have to move my mouse as much.  The OpenLook scroll-buttons-on-thumb is
really, really annoying, since you have to find the thumb each time you
want to scroll.

> Now, Tcl/Tk is stuck with some of these problems.  But it did fix a
> few of them: hilighting of active elements when the cursor enters one;
> coloring of radio and checkbuttons to indicate selected items, and so
> forth.

This is possible with Motif, (even 1.x) and does not even violate the
visual guidelines.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.



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