Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 19:38:35 +1000 From: Sue Blake <sue@welearn.com.au> To: Tim Gerchmez <fewtch@serv.net> Cc: David Wolfskill <dhw@whistle.com>, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A first encounter with 'vi' Message-ID: <19980619193835.65211@welearn.com.au> In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980619020219.007fc9c0@mx.serv.net>; from Tim Gerchmez on Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 02:02:19AM -0700 References: <3.0.5.32.19980618163903.007f6640@mx.serv.net> <199806171941.MAA05868@pau-amma.whistle.com> <3.0.5.32.19980618163903.007f6640@mx.serv.net> <19980619115247.49675@welearn.com.au> <3.0.5.32.19980619020219.007fc9c0@mx.serv.net>
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On Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 02:02:19AM -0700, Tim Gerchmez wrote:
> At 11:52 AM 6/19/98 +1000, Sue Blake wrote:
>
> >True, but consider how PCs are used these days. My server has no need for
> >a floppy drive, CD, mouse, sound card, etc. It just needs a hard disk a
> >screen and a keyboard, so that's what it's got.
>
> You had to have installed a master boot record on the hard drive at some
> point, and set up some networking software. So you must have had a floppy
> drive of some sort in there at one time or another.
Not necessarily. In fact, this is a SCSI disk that was already bootable
when it was put into the machine.
> I don't know about your PC, but mine is in an Enlight case with most
> internal peripherals installed on sliding runners.
Sliding runners?! Wow, no mod cons like that round here. You need the
skill and patience of a brain surgeon to move any of my hardware around
without the matchboxes and sticky tape that hold it all together crumbling.
> If I wanted to set it up that way, I could slide in a disk drive, hook
> it up, install some software, unhook the drive, then slide it back out
> again and close up the case in under 3 minutes (screwless).
We're in different worlds :-)
> So anyway, if we're talking emergencies, although it would be both easier
> and faster to use vi, a method of accessing a floppy disk could be
> achieved, although it might take far more time than just using vi would
> have. Therefore, claims that learning vi is a 'necessity' are overstated
> bunk, IMO. Human beings are endlessly resourceful, and if I needed a way
> to edit a file on a system without using vi, I would find a way.
I agree. Like I said before, if you need an editor and you can't mount
/usr you still don't have to use vi. Either use ed, or get very good at
combining cat, grep, echo, piping and redirection (which is how I had to
edit my fstab once, hehe, not funny at the time).
> >I'm not going to want to boot off a floppy, so why should I leave that
> >option available to any potential intruder or pokey visitor?
>
> If you're away long enough, and your PC's case isn't sealed with steel
> rivets or locked together (even locks can be picked, however), they can get
> inside it within one or two minutes, faster for someone experienced at it.
> *True* security involves taking some extraordinary measures that I doubt
> you have done (although you haven't said one way or another)
Sure, but I wasn't talking about security here. I was saying to myself:
Self, the only person who's going to want to use a floppy is some
smart-arse visitor who thinks he'll quickly boot off his floppy, and play
around so why pay $50 for a floppy drive?
> P.S... Why don't you think the need to boot off a floppy may come up some
> time? BSD may be very stable, but if you think it's PERFECT, think again.
> If the network dies on the BSD end (say a configuration file or two gets
> corrupted), you may need that floppy.
If and when I need it I'll fork over the $50, just like you'll learn vi
if and when you need to. I'm not holding my breath, are you? :-)
> >It's not just a matter of being ubiquitous. You also need something you
> >can use when the system is so screwed that the only thing you can mount
> >is the root filesystem.
>
> Vi is the only editor available on the root filesystem of most Unix systems?
Of course not! If you prefer, you can use ex or ed.
> BTW, who ever said I planned to become a Unix system administrator for
> other people's PC's? It's almost been assumed that's the case during this
> whole discussion. For chrissakes, I'm a newbie playing with a free OS on a
> personal machine at home. Perhaps in a week (although probably not) I'll
> erase it off my hard drive and go try GEOS or FreeDOS or some other OS
> instead, just for kicks and for the learning experience.
Awww, don't go saying that! We're all using machines sitting in the
family room with a handful of siblings/children/parents queueing to
reboot and use their win95, pretending during our brief moments of
FreeBSD that we're administering the biggest network in the universe.
We know it's like that for the others too, but we can't bring ourselves
to say it out loud because nobody else does. It's comfortable this way.
Now you've gone and blown our cover :-( Can't you at least pretend,
just a little bit, huh?
--
Regards,
-*Sue*-
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