Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 22:12:49 +0200 From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org> To: "'Jordan Hubbard'" <jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Cc: <hackers@freebsd.org> Subject: RE: Query: How to tell if Microsoft is using BSD TCP/IP code? Message-ID: <002901c0f769$e3fcdbc0$420d640a@HELL> In-Reply-To: <20010617112712J.jkh@osd.bsdi.com>
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Jordan Hubbard <jkh@osd.bsdi.com> wrote:
> Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org> wrote:
> > It all sounds really odd to me but alas a cat does stupid things
when it gets cornered...
> > I sincerely hope that you BSD guys&gals stay far far away from the
> > "microsoft is evil, we can't win it easily so let's bash it to
hell"-attitude.
^-- did you notice this piece.... I hope you did.... I really didn't
take the time of searching for those references,
which you asked for ("confirming or disproving this assertion") just to
kick you down or something.
It was also only a figure of speech... I was only "warning" (big word :)
for the stuff that happened
to especially all those linux advocates (see slashdot.org for your daily
propaganda :) and/or what happened back
in the Amiga vs Windows vs Atari etc days.
http://www.openbsd.org/goals.html luckily states: "Be as politics-free
as possible; solutions should be decided on the basis of technical
merit."
That goes for OpenBSD and I think/hope for all the other BSD's, I hope
you understand what I mean with all of this :)
> 1. We're not cornered.
But you are doing propaganda actions (newpaper :)... which for some
people really leeds to think that you are...
I am also wondering why you wanted to get a complete press release out
so quickly but that we'll all see on Monday :)
I am glad you sorted me out on that point, got me a bit worried though.
> 2. We're not bashing Microsoft here. We're just trying to figure
> out if their recently published comments that "Open Source is bad
> and inimical to our interests" is really just marketspeak which
> contradicts their own engineering position.
Well the marketing division of Microsoft prolly never reported any
negative cashflow :)
Then again you are kinda indicating here that you are worried as you do
respond to something you think is very propaganda alike.
And in another thread (Summary: Is Microsoft using the BSD TCP/IP
stack?):
> It's apparently just not possible to really tell for sure without
> looking at the source code, and it was not possible to get ahold of
> any of the University licensee's or Microsoft developers in time to go
> into that level of detail. There were a few "telltales", however,
> such as the TCP initial window in Windows 2000 being exactly the same
> as FreeBSD and OpenBSD and a few headers in Microsoft Visual studio,
> as well as various userland utilities, bearing the BSD trademark.
You could also have checked out http://research.microsoft.com/msripv6/
which has full source code to the IPv6 stack,
though it's the Research version, so it's not exactly what's going
production in WinXP (as currently found in the beta's :).
And the "headers" only describe the BSD API which is, I repeat, in use
by almost any TCP/IP stack there is, so there is absoletely no
conclusion you can take from that.
One can very easily "port" a BSD-socket API using program by adding the
opening&closing of the winsock.dll which is the biggest part you'll need
to do unless you are using things like raw sockets and such (see
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/devprods/vs6/visualc/vccore/_core_port
:)
The userland tools are very probably based on the BSD code though but in
what extent... that's really hard to say, and they've probabably also
been very much altered.
> In any case, I'd like to thank everyone for their help and suggest
> that those interested read Monday's (June 18th) Wall Street Journal
> for some of the results of their research.
I'll surelly check it out to see what it states...
I hope this at least makes my point clear as I am really not advocating
any OS whatsoever... (Amiga Rulez <grin> :)
Greets,
Jeroen
PS: rest of the discussion can prolly go to /dev/null as it won't have
any more impact on the newspaper thingy, I just wanted it straightened
from my side.
PS2: Jordan... You are ofcourse allowed to bash me with good
argumentation for this as you may see fit.
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