Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 09:06:43 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net> To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" <karl@mcs.com> Cc: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.93.960524084933.1255E-100000@sasami> In-Reply-To: <m0uMx9I-000IDOC@venus.mcs.com>
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On Fri, 24 May 1996, Karl Denninger, MCSNet wrote: > First, commercial boxes come with support. Support that an ISP will NEED. I'm not going to touch this. There are too many examples of crappy tech support. > There is definitely a place for these things, yes. But when you are operating > a company which is selling access to the PUBLIC, and those customers want > support and operational systems, you have to have a way to give it to them. I see no conflicts for those public access providers that choose to use FreeBSD. They are getting their support from themselves. The quality of that support is now on THEIR heads. > I'm not going to try to claim that there is no place for FreeBSD-based > routers. There *IS*. > > But to try to claim that they *replace* the typical CISCO solution, or the > typical end-user attachment solution, is nuts. Two different targets, two > different markets. Hey, I'll take a stacked 7513 if your paying... Lessee, I'd like at least 6 ethernet ports, 8 serial, 2 HSSI and 2 FDDI... Well, I don't really need all that, but if I wanted to replace the FreeBSD based router on my network, I'd need a cisco 4000 with 2 4-port ethernet cards. I don't care HOW you roll it, that box is gonna cost LOTS more than $2000. I"m getting 4 port ethenet cards for $125. At that price I'll take a reboot a WEEK (hey, it comes back up in under 2 minutes) so I don't have to lay out the capital for a $10,000 router. I expect to see uptimes on that box of 100 days or more, so I think that in my case its foolish not to go with the FreeBSD box. When I have the money, I'll petition for some criscos, but who knows? By then maybe I'll be happy to keep the FreeBSD box. > I can live with some quirky problem, or work to fix it myself, in a Unix > machine that is being used as a file or compute server. I absolutely > *CANNOT* live with that same problem in a core router on my network. Among > other things, I screw *other providers* with those problems when they show > up on my core. This is true. Broken things tend to suck. > That is unacceptable. Thats another way of putting it. > And frankly, if the argument is "cheaper is better", I generally say "you > haven't considered ALL the costs." I can always come up with a cheaper > solution if I leave a few of the costs out of the equation. Given the choice between having a solution, and not having one, I'll take having one any day, no matter how much I've got to babysit the thing. When the budget becomes flexible enought that I can look at integrated solutions, I'll do that. > And yes, Dennis, I am a developer. 99% of the software running here, > including the entire FreeBSD-based authentication and database systems at > MCSNet, were written by me. 15+ years of experience in this industry. Lets pretend that I've used my FreeBSD router for a whole year, and have only rebooted it for maintainence, and it does EVERYTHING I need it to do. Should I choose integrated solutions over the PC/FreeBSD solution just because its got tech support? I think the arguement that people are trying to make here is that FreeBSD boxes ARE being used successfully as routers, and that they work well enough to be taken seriously. I admit that I don't have warm fuzzies like I would if I were using a cisco, but at this point I can't do anything about that, and in time I may get some of those 'warm fuzzies' about the FreeBSD solution. We shall see. Have a goodo one. | Matthew N. Dodd | winter@jurai.net | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | | Technical Manager | mdodd@intersurf.net | http://www.intersurf.net | | InterSurf Online | "Welcome to the net Sir, would you like a handbasket?"|
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