Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 21:18:28 -0800 From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com> To: <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Cc: Peter Schuller <peter.schuller@infidyne.com> Subject: RE: FreeBSD bind performance in FreeBSD 7 Message-ID: <BMEDLGAENEKCJFGODFOCEEHMCFAA.tedm@toybox.placo.com> In-Reply-To: <200803101102.42533.peter.schuller@infidyne.com>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
> -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Schuller [mailto:peter.schuller@infidyne.com] > Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 2:02 AM > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Cc: Ted Mittelstaedt; Chris; Adrian Chadd > Subject: Re: FreeBSD bind performance in FreeBSD 7 > > > > The people complaining about hardware compatibility need > > to pull their heads out. If they are buying brand new systems > > they are utter fools if they don't check out in advance > > what works and what doesen't. It's not like there's a > > shortage of experienced people on this list who could > > tell them what to buy. And if after the fact they find out > > their shiny new PC won't run FreeBSD - then they take it > > back to the retailer and exchange it for a different model. > > Why is this so difficult? > > The difficulty is not in checking out hardware before hand, the > problem is > FINDING hardware that satisfies your requirements. Just because I > know that > NIC so-and-so is recommended, it does not mean that I can find a complete > server that: > > * Is within the budget. > * Whose NIC is recommended for use in FreeBSD. > * Whose disk/raid controller is recommended for use in FreeBSD > - Including proper handling of write caching, cache flushing, etc > * Is being sold in a fashion that is acceptable with respect to hardware > support / replacement parts. > * Otherwise is known to work with well FreeBSD. > > If you are a large company buying 200 servers I'm sure it's not a > problem to > get sample servers to try things on, or go for more expensive > options just > because of perceived FreeBSD compatibility. > > If you're a poor sod trying to get *one* machine for personal or > small-company > use and you want something that works and is stable, especially > if you want > it rack mountable, it is NOT necessarily trivial. Part of it is > the problem > of finding a solution that meets the requirements, and parts of > it is about > figuring out whether a particular solution DOES meet the requirements. > > For example, once your cheaper Dell server has arrived and you > suddenly notice > that it's delivered without a BBU, and clearly has write caching > turned on > based on performance, try asking (remember, this is a lonely > customer with a > single service) Dell hardware support whether that particular > controller will > honor cache flush requests right down to the constituent > drives... I did, and > eventually got a response after 1-2 weeks. But the response was > such that I > could not feel confident that the question was accurately > forwarded to the > right individual. > That is exactly why computer consulting firms (like the one that partly owns the ISP I work for) exist. There's a list of them on the FreeBSD website that sell hardware. For the poor sod trying to get 1 machine, he has a choice: pay a trivial couple hundred bucks to a consulting firm that sells PCs to small businesses to supply the system he needs for his business do it himself and deal with all of the research beforehand, and all the post-support hassles with Dell or HP or whatever. You see, the problem is that the small business/home office types see these consumer-adverts in the backs of the newspaper for a $299.99 Dell, and they immediately assume a computer is a computer is a computer, and that they shouldn't have to pay a consultant more than $50 to provide everything with all the trimmings to them - because after all a consultant is going to do is just pick up the phone and place the order, eh? (frankly, the FBSD folk have it easy - this attitude is 10 times worse in the Mickeysoft consulting business) For the home user, his choice is either spending the $300 and crossing his fingers and hope the thing works at all, or actually approaching it from a professional point of view and doing what the businesses are supposed to be doing - that is, hiring a consultant that knows what they are doing, or spending the same amount of time and money that a knowledgeable consultant spent. You think I got my knowledge for free? I have a basement full of old computer hardware I bought over the years while I learned that says otherwise. Care for an $80 CGA card? Now do you see why consultants go crazy with that "your knowledge ain't worth anything" attitude? As long as the FreeBSD community cops the attitude that FBSD is only for do-it-yourselfers, it's going to be largely ignored by most of the business community. In any case, I can count the number of people who have posted "I'm planning on getting a system that is going to run FreeBSD what should I get" questions on the mailing list in the last year on the fingers of 1 hand, I think, so I really tend to discount this argument. I'll repeat, the vast majority of people complaining about hardware problems with FreeBSD are the folks who bought first, THEN when something didn't work, came running to the mailing list. And the vast majority of them claim they cannot take it back because it's past the UCC-mandated 30-day return timeperiod, so returning the stuff isn't an option. (of course, when you really get into the troubleshooting process with them you find the stuff was purchased a year ago with Windows on it, and FBSD was just an afterthought once they got tired of playing with the latest mess from Redmond.) Ted
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?BMEDLGAENEKCJFGODFOCEEHMCFAA.tedm>