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Date:      Fri, 11 Apr 1997 13:32:09 +0000 (GMT)
From:      Neal <neal@pernet.net>
To:        Vincent Poy <vince@mail.MCESTATE.COM>
Cc:        isp@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: TS Holy War (was Re: Some advice needed.)
Message-ID:  <Pine.BSF.3.95q.970411131550.14945A-100000@office.pernet.net>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970411121102.11771Z-100000@mail.MCESTATE.COM>

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On Fri, 11 Apr 1997, Vincent Poy wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Apr 1997, Neal wrote:
> 
> > My general impression of Annex has been a screamed NO.  But bear in mind
> > that's just an impression.
> 
> 	Hmm, any reasoning behind this though?

Not really, just a "feel".  I probably should have thought more before
typing that.  The jury is instructed to ignore the remark.

> 
> > Now, a couple little thoughts just from me:
> > 
> > 1:If you're strapped for cash, don't even try to start.  You need to be
> >   able to count on anywhere from $100,000-300,000 to run.
> 
> 	Does it really take that much?  How does the money break down?

Yes.  Easily.  I believe we're at $500,000 now.  The problem is that it
takes forever(we've been going to >2 years, and we're just now "close") to
break even.
Breakdown:

  $3k/month T1 to net
  $325/month per PRI(or $410 per 23 analog lines)
  $1000/month office space, etc.(rent, utilities)
  $5k+ employees.  You save on this if you go with no help, but it sucks.
= $9k/month expenses without leasing equipment.

Startup equipment:

   $17k  Max 4000.
   $1500 Cisco 2501.
   $???? computers/servers(at least 1, call it $2k per)
=  $20k startup.  You really need more, i.e. seperate news/mail/web.


Of course, I _might_ be inflating the number here.  It was actually
considerably more expensive to do this two years ago.  But I'm not
considering startup costs for the T1 or PRI.


> 
> > 2:As odd as this sound, make friends with the phone company.  We get ISDN
> >   B channels for $13/month.  Do you think they would have "found" this
> >   tariff if I was pissed at them?
> 
> 	Doesn't it actually cost for incoming for ISDN lines?

No.  We pay $325/month/PRI with no "per usage" pricing.  The hitch is it's
incoming only, but I think we'll live.  Outgoing is $.05/minute.

> 
> > 3:Decide what you want to do beforehand.  If you WANT to be a big-1000
> >   line ISP, go ahead and start with a PM3 or MAX or whatever you decide
> >   on.  But if you are going to stay small and don't think you can afford
> >   $14000 for 48 analog lines, look into a BSD box or something equivilant.
> 
> 	Hmmm, what about if you wanted to start out small and then expand
> as business grows?
> 

That's my argument about using BSD boxes.  They're cheaper to start up
with.  When you get to the point that $14000 doesn't phase you, THEN you
get the big boxes.

> > 4:Avoid telebit like the plague.  If you talk to uunet, they'll try and
> >   sell you one.  Don't buy.  I speak from experience.
> 
> 	Hmmm, you're talking about the router or the terminal server or
> their modems?
> 

Yes :).  I've used their "terminal server".  I did some work with a
University that had Telebit modems that locked up about 8 times a day.
I wasn't aware they made a router.
The terminal server was a 386sx-16.  Now its a 486dx2-66(I believe).
Their tech support was miserable then(it might be better now, this was 1.5
year ago).  They had a callback system.  They would "try" to get back to
you within three days.


> 
> Cheers,
> Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET           ________   __ ____ 
> Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / |  / |[__  ]
> GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate                     / / / /  | /  | __] ]  
> Beverly Hills, California USA 90210                   / / / / / |/ / | __] ]
> HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____]
> 
> 
> 

--
Neal Rigney, PERnet Communications, (409)729-4638
neal@mail.pernet.net





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