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Date:      Fri, 6 Sep 2002 17:52:55 +0200 (CEST)
From:      Harti Brandt <brandt@fokus.gmd.de>
To:        Mikhail Teterin <mi+mx@aldan.algebra.com>
Cc:        Harti Brandt <brandt@fokus.gmd.de>, "Andrey A. Chernov" <ache@nagual.pp.ru>, Mikhail Teterin <mi+kde@aldan.algebra.com>, <i18n@FreeBSD.ORG>, Maxim Sobolev <sobomax@FreeBSD.ORG>, <anholt@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   Re: recap (Re: koi8-r is obsoleted by koi8-u)
Message-ID:  <20020906173418.Y816-100000@beagle.fokus.gmd.de>
In-Reply-To: <200209061112.23386.mi%2Bmx@aldan.algebra.com>

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On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Mikhail Teterin wrote:

MT>On Friday 06 September 2002 03:13 am, Harti Brandt wrote:

MT>= Given that fonts/cyrillic is only about 1MByte and that you can control
MT>= which of the fonts get loaded with the fontpath and compared to other
MT>= bloat I see no waste here.
MT>
MT>Actually, 1Mb of _dead weight_ is plenty in my book. Having all three
MT>fontsets will triple that...

1085	/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic
173724	/usr/X11R6

I can't really see that point.

MT>= RFC-1489 is not marked as obsolete, so people will countinue to use it
MT>= and, honestly, I don't see a reason to remove support even if it would
MT>= be obsoleted.
MT>
MT>FreeBSD, generally, removes parts considered obsolete -- be that drivers
MT>for obsolete hardware (pre-IDE disks) or software packages (uucp). In
MT>the later case, the removed software is turned into a port...

Oh well, that may be true, but even FreeBSD doesn't remove features that a lot
of people use. I'm NOT talking about using those characters in question, but
about using the font name koi8-r. The are millions of web pages that specify
charset="koi8-r". And, well, we don't want to move 'obsolete' features from
/usr/ports to /usr/portsports :-)

MT>Marking the RFC-1489 is what I'm beginning to campaing for :-)

Better start getting rid of EBCDIC :-) (It's still in dd).

MT>The "religious" overtones come from the frustration over the ignorance,
MT>with which some people equate "Cyrillic" and "Russian" (BTW, "Soviet"
MT>and "Russian" is a related problem). The alphabet was created in the
MT>9th century BC, apparently, in Monrovia -- about three centuries before
MT>Moscow was founded (and pretty far from its future location too)...

I always recognized koi8-r as "cyrillic font for russian" and koi8-u
as "cyrrillic font for ukrainian". At least RFC-2319 says that koi8-u
is ukrainian.

MT>I think, koi8-c should be the default with aliases pointing to koi8-u
MT>and koi8-r. Whoever is currently installing the new koi8-r fonts through
MT>Andrey's port(s) will still be able to do that if they require it. But
MT>the casual users will not have to install all three.

So we all agree on that there should be (standard conform) koi8-[ruc] fonts
available. The question is whether to install all of them per default or to
install only koi8-c and make koi8-[ru] aliases. For me it doesn't matter.
I really would like to see koi8-c (I love the old russian orthography).
Make a STRICT_RFC knob to the make file to install all three fonts.

harti
-- 
harti brandt, http://www.fokus.gmd.de/research/cc/cats/employees/hartmut.brandt/private
              brandt@fokus.gmd.de, brandt@fokus.fhg.de


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