Skip site navigation (1)Skip section navigation (2)
Date:      Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:08:13 -0800
From:      Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com>
To:        "Gary W. Swearingen" <swear@attbi.com>
Cc:        jtn@jtn.cx, rob spellberg <emailrob@emailrob.com>, FreeBSD Chat <chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   Re: was this really necessary?
Message-ID:  <3E592A2D.1F46CD19@mindspring.com>
References:  <00bc01c2d93e$452d1f60$0502000a@sentinel> <4.3.2.7.2.20030221181620.01b7ded8@threespace.com> <20030222010251.Y318@ndhn.yna.cnyserzna.pbz> <3E56F25F.3B09AB9F@emailrob.com> <20030222204314.GA52476@jtn.cx> <3E58778A.CD67C07@mindspring.com> <w68yw623f2.yw6@localhost.localdomain>

next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
"Gary W. Swearingen" wrote:
> Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com> writes:
> > "Jason T. Nelson" wrote:
> > > And this is particularly why we have the 2nd amendment; the second the US
> > > federal government tries this is the day I march on Washington armed to
> > > defend my rights as defined in our Constitution (and I wouldn't be alone, I
> > > assure you). I doubt you could seriously consider that Congress attempting
> > > this stupidity as "representing" our citizens' interests.
> >
> > The Constitution does not grant these rights; it merely
> > acknowledges them.  Look up "inalienable".  8-) 8-).
> 
> Did anybody here say the Constitution grants rights?  Jason used "defined".
> 
> As for "inalienable", that's from the Declaration of Independence, which
> can be easily ignored by those amending the Constitution.  (Of course,
> The People may claim their rights, regardless of the Constitution.)

As Jason points out, if that were to happen, we'd just re-declare
out independence.  8-) 8-).


> There is a language problem here, though.  The word "right" has many
> meanings, so that our language is often misinterpreted and discussions
> become babble.  There are two main meanings, with a big difference:
> 
>     "Privilege":
>     This the obvious and most practical meaning -- the most useful one.
>     When people mean something different, they should use more words;
>     but they don't, leading to the creation of this definition:

"Driving is not a right, it's a priviledge", since we nationalized
the highway system in 1954 in order to force standards to support
width and bridge height requirements for mobile command posts, in
the event of nuclear war.  8-).


>     "Claim of Privilege":
>     This meaning is usually rendered fuzzy by an implied or explicit
>     prefixing with the word "Just".  At one extreme, "Just" is defined
>     metaphysically as coming from a god.  At the other extreme, it's
>     defined as coming from some law/regulation/rule.  In the middle,
>     it comes from tradition and/or supreme law as from our Declaration
>     of Independence and/or Constitution (as misinterpreted by a Court).

inalienable: incapable of being alienated, surrendered, or transferred
		<inalienable rights>

right:	1	qualities (as adherence to duty or obedience to lawful
		authority) that together constitute the ideal of moral
		propriety or merit moral approval

	2	something to which one has a just claim: as a : the
		power or privilege to which one is justly entitled
		b(1)	the interest that one has in a piece of property
			-- often used in plural <mineral rights
		 (2) plural : the property interest possessed under law
			or custom and agreement in an intangible thing
			especially of a literary and artistic nature
			<film rights of the novel>

	3	something that one may properly claim as due

	4	the cause of truth or justice

> It's unclear what people are thinking when they say "driving's not a
> right, it's a privilege". (Most are probably not thinking at all, but
> merely quoting a mantra tought to them by their teachers who, in turn,
> learned it from their socialist college professors.)  Driving can be
> considered either a priviledge or a just claim to a privilege as granted
> by law to those who qualify (i.e., a right).

Driving, as a right, is not inalienable.  It was alienated in the
Interstate Highway Act of 1954 (see above).


> Changing the subject somewhat, I'll note that regardless of what
> *claims* people have on any privileges, the *enjoyment* of those
> privileges are ultimately dependent on explicit or implicit *grants* of
> privilege by the people controlling the force of arms, who are usually,
> in turn, controlled by means of money.  If you want to try to ensure
> your enjoyment of rights, you need to strive after control of the guns
> and money.

That really doesn't agree with Locke or Rosseau... 8-) 8-).

-- Terry

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message




Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?3E592A2D.1F46CD19>