Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:29:20 -0600 From: Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org> To: Peter <fbsdq@yahoo.com> Cc: mwm@mired.org, "Wes Peters" <wes@softweyr.com>, "Randell Jesup" <rjesup@wgate.com>, "Terry Lambert" <tlambert@primenet.com>, "Matt Dillon" <dillon@earth.backplane.com>, "Alfred Perlstein" <bright@wintelcom.net>, "josb@cncdsl.com" <josb@cncdsl.com>, "chat@FreeBSD.ORG" <chat@FreeBSD.ORG> Subject: Re: DJBDNS vs. BIND Message-ID: <15013.14992.566241.472574@guru.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <SAK.2001.03.06.ktlteqfs@support10> References: <SAK.2001.03.06.ktlteqfs@support10>
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Peter <fbsdq@yahoo.com> types: > On 03/06/2001 12:12:30 PM, Mike Meyer is quoted as saying: > . . . .|>benefit to *BSD. > > What benefit would this have? Yes binary config files will probably mean faster boot > times, but other than that, is their any reason we should all have our config files > dependent on some DB? Ever have your registry go dead in windows? [no backups], that > means reinstall OS and all your software, I would hate having the same thing happen to > my FreeBSD box. I even look at the .db files of passwd/master.passwd, and I still dont' > get why BSD didn't just stick with plaintext versions of those as most other unixes have Yes, I know the evils of storing system config information in binary files. The issue is orthogonal to the question of having a single API for accessing the config file information. The advantage of the latter is that you've reduced the learning curve for the system, the amount of code that has to be compiled to make world, and the disk and ram space taken up by the resulting binaries. <mike > [well I only know of Linux and the fresh install of Solaris 8 here]. > > > . . . .|Robert Clark <res03db2@gte.net> types: > . . . .|> Have you seen any intelligent discussion of > . . . .|> the whole concept of whether to keep config info > . . . .|> in flat files, or to use a bindery/database? (Something > . . . .|> I could go read up on.) > . . . .|> I often wonder if a standardized api for > . . . .|> storing and retreiving config info would be a benefit > . . . .|> to *BSD. > . . . .| > . . . .|This came up as in that same discussion. It would almost certainly be > . . . .|a benefit to have a standardized API for config files. Note that this > . . . .|*is* a different question from the flat file/DBMs question. The > . . . .|standardize API doesn't have to talk things in a binary format. You > . . . .|could cram everything into S-expresisons, for instance. > . . . .| > . . . .|The question is whether or not you can make all the config files > . . . .|currently in use by FreeBSD comfortably fit through that API. For > . . . .|instance, there are a lot of tables (crontab, printcap, passwd, group, > . . . .|etc.) as well as some simple name/value pairs (rc.conf, etc.), as well > . . . .|as things that are simply lists of commands (your typical firewall > . . . .|config). > . . . .| > . . . .| <mike > . . . .| > . . . .|> This whole subject seems like an unimaginably > . . . .|> big can o worms. > . . . .|> > . . . .|> Even the staunchest advocates of the bindery/ > . . . .|> registry don't get it completely right. (as far as I've > . . . .|> seen anyway.) > . . . .|> > . . . .|> Thanks, [RC] > . . . .|> > . . . .|> > . . . .|> On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 01:34:24AM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > . . . .|> > Mike Meyer wrote: > . . . .|> > > > . . . .|> > > Randell Jesup <rjesup@wgate.com> types: > . . . .|> > > > Moved from -arch to -chat. > . . . .|> > > > Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com> writes: > . . . .|> > > > >We in the unix world have a well-founded aversion to storing configuration > . . . .|> > > > >information in binary data stores that can't be accessed via ed(1) when > . . . .|> > > > >the system is in single-user mode. If we wanted to stuff all the system > . . . .|> > > > >configuration into such a black hole, we could've done it with DBM data- > . . . .|> > > > >bases more than a decade ago, quite easily. > . . . .|> > > > . . . .|> > > Oddly enough, this exact suggestion - stuff all the configuration > . . . .|> > > information in a DBM - came up on a private list I'm no not long > . . . .|> > > ago. The suggestion came from someone very sharp, the goal being to > . . . .|> > > focus more talent on making the DBM fast. The problem Wes mentioned > . . . .|> > > prett much killed it at that point. > . . . .|> > > > . . . .|> > > > As someone said, vipw is a good counterexample. > . . . .|> > > > The above schemes do allow you to use ED (if you like) to edit > . . . .|> > > > configuration files. In one case it's totally free (even cp will work), in > . . . .|> > > > the other you have to use some sort of vipw thing to invoke the editor and > . . . .|> > > > make sure that the file is notified as changed (or integrate with the > . . . .|> > > > editor in some automatic or semi-automatic way). > . . . .|> > > > . . . .|> > > The critical issue isn't being able to use ed per se, it's working in > . . . .|> > > single user mode, with no file systems mounted and no daemons > . . . .|> > > running. How do your schemes deal with that requirement? > . . . .|> > > . . . .|> > Text-to-dbm converters still work fine in single user mode, as long as > . . . .|> > they're robust to handle not having a daemon to talk to. I even have one > . . . .|> > application that rips configuration information out of a PgSQL database > . . . .|> > and stuff it into a DBM database, on system startup and whenever the PgSQL > . . . .|> > table gets modified. > . . . .|> > > . . . .|> > Ick. > . . . .|> > > . . . .|> > -- > . . . .|> > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > . . . .|> > > . . . .|> > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > . . . .|> > wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ > . . . .|> > > . . . .|> > . . . .|-- > . . . .|Mike Meyer > <mwm@mired.org> http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ > . . . .|Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more > information. > . . . .| > . . . .|To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > . . . .|with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > > > www.nul.cjb.net > www.FreeBSD.org > > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > -- Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org> http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. 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