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Date:      Fri, 25 Jan 2019 09:17:31 -0800
From:      Devin Teske <dteske@FreeBSD.org>
To:        Michael Gmelin <grembo@freebsd.org>
Cc:        Devin Teske <dteske@FreeBSD.org>, Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@freebsd.org>, arch@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Importing mksh in base
Message-ID:  <69E462A0-B9E9-4D26-898F-A96036227E65@FreeBSD.org>
In-Reply-To: <BB2CCC27-9277-4300-BF59-B5C62641A7B1@freebsd.org>
References:  <20190125165751.kpcjjncmf7j7maxd@ivaldir.net> <BB2CCC27-9277-4300-BF59-B5C62641A7B1@freebsd.org>

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> On Jan 25, 2019, at 9:13 AM, Michael Gmelin <grembo@freebsd.org> =
wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On 25. Jan 2019, at 17:57, Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@freebsd.org> =
wrote:
>>=20
>> Hi everyone,
>>=20
>> I would like to import mksh in base, https://www.mirbsd.org/mksh.htm
>> And make it the default root shell (not necessary in one step)
>>=20
>> Why:
>> 1/ it is tiny 400k (in the packaged version) all other shells fitting =
the
>> expectation are bigger
>> 2/ it's default frontend in interactive mode is very close to what =
most people
>> are used to with bash and shells as default root shell on other BSD =
and most
>> linuxes
>> 3/ from my narrow window csh as a default root shell is one of the =
major
>> complaint (usually the first thing a user get faced to) from new =
comers and
>> also for some long timers who are reinstalling a machine and have not =
yet
>> installed/configured a bourne compatible shell
>>=20
>> What this proposal is _NOT_ about:
>> 1/ the removal of tcsh from base
>> 2/ any kid of denial of the quality and interest or features of csh
>>=20
>> What do you think?
>=20
> Without knowing mksh in detail, based on your description I=E2=80=99m =
in favor of replacing csh with something closer to bash as the default =
root shell. In over 20 years of FreeBSD I didn=E2=80=99t manage to warm =
up with csh and none of the people I introduced to FreeBSD in that time =
did either.
>=20

Working at Vicor for 10 years, where phk and jelischer used to work, =
nearly everyone there was well-versed in csh. I learned a lot of cool =
stuff and features it had to offer (such as "repeat N cmd"). Now the =
topic of replacing csh root shell with a bourne variant, I can't help =
but think of those old-hands at Vicor. The people that, every time I =
have lunch with, teach me ever more lore and impart priceless historical =
data points.
--=20
Devin=



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