Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 17:44:01 +0200 From: "Julian H. Stacey" <jhs@berklix.com> To: arch@freebsd.org Cc: Doug Barton <dougb@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Removing CVS from HEAD Message-ID: <201209111544.q8BFi1AD064967@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: Your message "Mon, 10 Sep 2012 22:35:02 PDT." <504ECD86.2040002@FreeBSD.org>
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On Mon, 2012-09-10 at 22:35 -0700, Doug Barton wrote:
> On 09/10/2012 17:27, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
> > When/if it's agreed to remove CVS from src/ to ports/ , do it
> > Not in un-managed haste. Not gratuitously annoying users by
> > removing CVS from src/ without due warning.
>
> Do you consider years from now "due warning?"
I never mentioned Years plural or a time scale, beyond If FreeBSD do it,
let's allow time for eg :
- Warn in one release notes,
- Set WITHOUT_CVS=YES in next release & warn,
- Will be deleted from next release.
I never wrote (or thought) they had to be major release digits. I
was thinking at least a minimal linear minor digit sequence might
do, eg { 8.4, 8.5, 8.6 } or { 9.1, 9.2, 9.3 } though I noted since
others are talking about major release numbers eg 10 etc, & as minor
numbers rarely get high since eg 4.11, some accomodation with major
numbers is needed. I'm not suggesting what, I'll continue to read
what others suggest.
> Because that's how long it
> is going to be before any measurable quantity of users is on 10.x.
> Between now and then, every one of them who is paying any attention at
> all will have moved from CVS to SVN.
>
> This whole argument of "zomg, users can't handle things moving to ports"
> is so 20th century.
Let's manage warnings, It's not that users Can't handle ports, most Can, But:
- Not all FreeBSD (or CVS) users, use FreeBSD (or CVS) just to build FreeBSD.
FreeBSD people have long had CVS available out of the box
for Their repositories too, not just for freebsd.org.
- It's not business efficient for newcomers to FreeBSD to stay with an OS
that wastes their time with superfluous variances from other
Unixes, before they can restore/ achieve a usable common UX
base. Not all users are FreeBSD dedicated, some are just passing
through, & will pass on stay, according to how much of their
time we consume with whatever makes us time consumingly different
from other UXs they know.
A newcomer will ask the same sceptical questions of FreeBSD as of
other UX's: "How much time must I lose on this UX before I'll
get back to a Unix environment with tools I'm used to from other Unixes ?"
I installed 3 different Linux last week, it was a reminder,
how I saw them, as to how others trying FreeBSD may equally see ours,
& decide to pass on, or stay.
Cheers,
Julian
--
Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultant, Munich http://berklix.com
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