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Date:      Mon, 22 Nov 1999 20:29:02 -0800
From:      "Freddie Cash" <fcash@bigfoot.com>
To:        <chat@freebsd.org>
Cc:        "David Schwartz" <davids@webmaster.com>, "Terry Lambert" <tlambert@primenet.com>
Subject:   RE: Judge: "Gates Was Main Culprit"
Message-ID:  <199911230427.UAA10458@ocis.ocis.net>
In-Reply-To: <000101bf354a$038b0e00$021d85d1@youwant.to>
References:  <199911230019.RAA01731@usr02.primenet.com>

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Pardon me for butting in,

> > > > > We aren't still stuck using 8 bit computers, are we?

> > > > No, we are stuck using 8MHz 16 bit I/O busses, incapable of
> > > > identifying all of the devices you plug into them, and incapable
> > > > of doing bys mastering into your full memory address space.

[snip]

> > I don't understand how I am no longer locked into supporting ISA
> > device probes, so long as there is an ISA bus in the machines on
> > which my OS runs.  I either support the hardware (all of it), or
> > I don't support the hardware. 

>  Huh? If you don't think the ISA bus gives you advantages that
>  outweight the
> costs of supporting it, don't. You aren't locked in!

Just out curiosity, how does one avoid the entire ISA bus?  Aren't 
the keyboard, PS/2, serial and parallel ports on the ISA bus?  Even 
if one doesn't use the ISA slots on the mobo, doesn't the PC/OS 
still probe the bus now and then?

It's only been in the last month or two that mobos without ISA 
*slots* have become available, but the ISA *bus* is still present, is 
it not?

> > How do I avoid suffering the disadvantages of carrying around this
> > legacy code and paying the penalty at boot time?
> 
>  You don't do it.
> 
> > The answer is that, so long as there is an ISA bus in my machine, I
> > will be paying for it.
> 
>  Bullshit. This is a clear case of why we don't get locked in.
>  Eventually,
> we migrate to the superior technologies, first trying to get all the
> benefits of the new, and later shedding all the disadvantages of the
> old.

Eventually.  But how long has it been now since the newer 
technology was first introduced?  Why has it taken so long if the 
new technology is so much better?  With all the advantages of 
PCI/AGP/USB/FireWire why is it that Intel compatible machines 
are still forced to use the original (slightly modified) ISA bus?

Just curious, because there has to be more to this than just time.

[snip]

> > No.  It is a case of being locked into supplying ISA slots.

>  Huh? Who is locked in? Motherboard manufacturers? No, they aren't
> locked in, the choose to add these slots because they believe the
> value of the compatability outweighs the cost of compatability. As
> soon as those balances change, they'll drop ISA slots. 

Actually, some mobo manufacturers have dropped the ISA *slot* 
but the ISA *bus* is still there.

Freddie



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