Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 13:22:27 +0100 From: Brad Knowles <brad.knowles@skynet.be> To: Robert Watson <rwatson@freebsd.org>, Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Good Mail Programs Message-ID: <a05100313b8156a984160@[194.78.144.27]> In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.3.96L.1011112054740.16646F-100000@fledge.watson.org> References: <Pine.NEB.3.96L.1011112054740.16646F-100000@fledge.watson.org>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
At 6:08 AM -0500 11/12/01, Robert Watson wrote: > (1) I want it to be text-based so I can use it efficiently over a network > connection, and easily using only a keyboard. I think mutt satisfies this requirement. > (2) I want it to have integrated support for multi-media, easy access to > attachments, and tight integration with the system file manager. I > a clean mouse-driven GUI that can be used to sort mail into folders > using a more visual paradigm. IMO, I haven't found a really good GUI MUA. The least bad I've found so far is Eudora, but no GUI MUA I know of also has a text mode, so if you want these two things in one program, I suspect that you are stuck. > (1) I want the power and flexibility of the UNIX-like mh and procmail > tools, allowing integration with arbitrary tools, including the > command-line PGP, shell scripts, arbitrary content handling, and > automated mail handling at delivery-time, not when I read the e-mail. Most text-mode MUAs should be more or less okay in this respect, depending on what mailbox format(s) they support, and what mailbox access method(s) they support. > (2) I want my mail to be stored on a central mail server, transparent to > the operating system and mail client I use, capable of supporting > multiple client instances without locking conflicts or inconsistency, > and with support for cached and disconnected operation. I want my > mail client to be stateless and to be changeable like a lightbulb, not > like an apartment. In which case, IMAP to a remote server would probably be a better fit than a local mailbox. In this case, you could use multiple different MUAs in different situations, so long as they were sufficiently compatible. > (1) I want my mail client to be flexible and confirable, adapting to my > complex mail needs: the ability to auto-sort mailing lists, even when > messages must be redundantly delivered to multiple folders; I want the > ability to have individual "sending" profiles automatically when > responding to mail in different folders, or pulled from different > souces; I want the ability to have arbitrary highlighting of message > contents, interest-based sorting, and other highly customized > feature-sets. Some of this can be done by mutt, or by using tools like procmail. However, I suspect that some of it just can't be done without writing your own program. > (2) I want my client to do the right thing out of the box, and to support > simultaneously the "configuration file" format, and complete > access to that format using easy-to-use text-driven or gui-driven > interfaces. I do not believe in m4 configuration, I do not believe in > configuration files that are hard to understand, counter-intuitive, > and a seemingly endless exploration of inconsistent variable names, > arbitrary hacks, and poor design. Again, here I think that mutt scores well. > (1) I want my mail client to be native to the operating system, operating > smoothly, quickly, and in a manner supported by the vendor. Don't see a problem here for mutt. > (2) I want my mail client to be secure. Mutt was originally written by Mike Elkins, the guy who also wrote the PGP/MIME RFC. It is still the "Premier PGP/MIME MUA". I really don't think that you get much better security than this. > It seems that I might fundamentally just want something that cannot exist, > rather than wanting something that has been made but simply has not been > found. Not in a single program, no. At least, not one that exists today. Of course, you could always write the be-all and end-all MUA tomorrow, and solve that problem for all the rest of us. ;-) > The closest I've come to happiness so far is the Cyrus mail > server, bundled with a combination of mail clients serving different > needs. Cyrus is a good small-scale IMAP server. It is easier to install than UW, is designed for maximum compatibility for users both local and remote to the server, and has a lot of other nice features. However, it does not scale well. If you care about scalability, you want to go with a "black box" mail server solution, and UW fits this scenario much better. > Pine is buggy, has progressively > more poor support for large mailboxes (60,000+ messages, shared mailboxes, > nested mailboxes, ACLs), is known for being buggy, especially regarding C > strings, and has poor integration with vital tools including PGP. ckimail > is, well, ckimail. IMO, mutt is better at handling large mailboxes than pine. However, mutt is never going to replace Netscape, and I hope that the folks who maintain it never even attempt to make it do so. If you need both a text mode and a GUI MUA, you really do need to use two separate programs, and I think that this is almost certainly always going to be the case. I'm not familiar with ckimail, so I can't speak for which side of the fence it should be one (or if you need to retain a third program). > I firmly believe no mail client can satisfy me, but I am eagerly awaiting > the day that I am proven wrong, so that I can suddenly become an organized > person with small mailboxes, who can find the message that they're looking > for, and feel safe recommending the software to a friend. There's a quote here that I think is very appropriate: "Remember, all software sucks. Some sucks more, and some sucks less." -- Ralf Hildebrandt IMO, mutt is one of those packages that tends to suck less. But, it won't walk the dog, empty the sink, clean the toilet, empty the cat litter box, or run in GUI mode. If you need something that can do all that and also run as a text-mode MUA, then I suggest that you need to write it yourself. -- Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles@skynet.be> H4sICIFgXzsCA2RtYS1zaWcAPVHLbsMwDDvXX0H0kkvbfxiwVw8FCmzAzqqj1F4dy7CdBfn7 Kc6wmyGRFEnvvxiWQoCvqI7RSWTcfGXQNqCUAnfIU+AT8OZ/GCNjRVlH0bKpguJkxiITZqes MxwpSucyDJzXxQEUe/ihgXqJXUXwD9ajB6NHonLmNrUSK9nacHQnH097szO74xFXqtlbT3il wMsBz5cnfCR5cEmci0Rj9u/jqBbPeES1I4PeFBXPUIT1XDSOuutFXylzrQvGyboWstCoQZyP dxX4dLx0eauFe1x9puhoi0Ao1omEJo+BZ6XLVNaVpWiKekxN0VK2VMpmAy+Bk7ZV4SO+p1L/ uErNRS/qH2iFU+iNOtbcmVt9N16lfF7tLv9FXNj8AiyNcOi1AQAA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?a05100313b8156a984160>