Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:45:16 -0600 From: Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com> To: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be> Cc: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>, Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@flood.ping.uio.no>, jcarlos@bahianet.com.br, stable@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG, security@FreeBSD.ORG, hitech@bahianet.com.br Subject: Re: Out of mbuf clusters Message-ID: <37E6E32C.D6CC67C6@softweyr.com> References: <199909201247.OAA08309@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> <v0420551fb40c1bf1992f@[195.238.1.121]> <37E6A807.7E07D48A@softweyr.com> <v04205501b40c5bd009bf@[195.238.25.190]>
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Brad Knowles wrote:
>
> At 3:32 PM -0600 1999/9/20, Wes Peters wrote:
>
> > Granted, the answer DES gave was a little cryptic.
>
> Cryptic. Hmm. That's not exactly the word I'd choose, but I'm
> willing to leave it at that for now.
>
> > He was also pointing
> > out some of the crucial operational knowlege you need to SUCCESSFULLY
> > operate an IRC server.
>
> I disagree. I read what he wrote, and while those might be the
> necessary steps to run the world's largest IRC server, or the world's
> most secure, I think we can all agree that not everyone in the world
> needs to be a Superman in order to have an IRC server that doesn't
> spontaneously crash.
Right up until somebody launches a clone attack against you, which results
in your server rolling over and dying one way or another.
> Yes, some of those steps were necessary (most importantly, the
> one you outline below), but not all of them.
Right up until somebody launches a clone attack against you... (this is
getting monotonous, isn't it? ;^)
> > Let me paraphrase the simple answer:
> >
> > "You're running out of mbuf clusters, which causes FreeBSD panic. It is
> > quite simple to expand the number of mbuf clusters in your system. Go
> > search for the phrase 'mbuf clusters' in the FreeBSD handbook or the
> > -questions archives if you don't already know how to."
>
> This is precisely the answer that should have been given in the
> first place.
He did, he just wrote it in geek-speak. I happen to be fluent in geek-
speak, and several other forms of communication. Consider me to be a
poor biological predecessor to C3PO.
> Regardless of why he did it, what DES did was drive just one more
> wedge between the FreeBSD "haves", and the folks who'd like to learn
> more about what I still feel is the best overall implementation of
> Unix for servers (and arguably for desktop workstations). In the
> process, he's destroying a lot of good work by people such as
> yourself who would presumably attempt to close that knowledge gap in
> some way other than slamming the questioner at each and every step.
We have a way of moderating this, it's called the -questions mailing list.
Unfortunately, we have a lot of users who think they are so important they
can just jump right over the -questions mailing list and either go directly
to hackers, or worse yet, cross post their questions to 3 or 4 or 5
different mailing lists.
I fully realize there are times when you want to get a question answered
as soon as possible, but it is rarely true that cross-posting your question
to -stable, -questions, and -security is the best way to accomplish this.
> I've known a lot of University professors like that. Regardless
> of how much they know, they are unable or unwilling to communicate
> that information in a manner which is useful and non-abusive to
> anyone not already operating on or very near their level. This makes
> life extremely (and unnecessarily) unpleasant for all the students
> who are forced to endure them, and the grad students who have to work
> even more closely with them. Many simply choose to go elsewhere.
>
> We'll never know how many Einsteins or Mother Theresas we'll
> never have, because they never got the chance to properly discover
> that side of themselves.
None. If they were truly an Einstein or a Mother Theresa, they would
persevere, not because they want to, but because they HAVE to.
> > It seems highly likely that ridiculing those who not only took the time
> > to respond to your question, but also to GIVE YOU THE SYSTEM IN THE FIRST
> > PLACE is NOT a good strategy for getting more questions answered in the
> > future.
>
> In the end we all die. What will we be remembered for? Who will
> remember us that way?
In the general case, the only important contribution we can leave to
humanity is our DNA imprints on our children. That's why we call works
like FreeBSD our "brainchildren," but it is a poor comparison at best. I
think most of the discussions that fly back and forth here, mine included,
would fare better if we all kept a certain amount of perspective here.
> How many people will remember all the significant contributions
> that DES has made to the history of FreeBSD and the good of freely
> available OSes around the world, and how many will remember him for
> precisely the sort of thing that got this whole thread started?
>
> Of the people who remember him each way, how many other people
> will they pass on that memory to? How far will those passed on
> memories keeping getting passed on?
>
> Myself, I'd like very much to remember DES as a key contributor
> to what is still (for the moment, anyway) my favourite server OS, and
> I would hope that one day I might actually eliminate enough of my
> ignorance that I could possibly be capable of comprehending some of
> the stuff that he might have to share.
>
> However, at the moment, this seems rather unlikely.
>
> > Having a sense of humor will certainly help.
>
> It's very hard to recognize humour when it's so well camoflaged as vitriol.
I wasn't referring to DES's reply, which was really quite mild for him.
I was referring to the reaction of two users to what he said, which was
just as uncalled for and somewhat less wise in the long run.
Without apologizing in any way for the high-brow and snotty tone of DES's
reply, there were some real nuggets of wisdom in there any anyone who took
the time to read it would have recognized that and acted upon it, rather
than getting their hackles up and insulting him back.
--
"Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"
Wes Peters Softweyr LLC
wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/
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