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Date:      Tue, 16 Jun 2020 09:18:32 -0400
From:      Aryeh Friedman <>
To:        Chris Knipe <>
Cc:        Polytropon <>, FreeBSD - <>
Subject:   Re: Mailing List Etiquette was freebsd vs. netbsd
Message-ID:  <>
In-Reply-To: <>
References:  <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>

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On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 8:56 AM Chris Knipe <> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 2:50 PM Aryeh Friedman <>
> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 8:28 AM Chris Knipe <> wrote:
>>>   Your own message - a very good example of
>>> what's wrong with it.  Straight from gmail.  In outlook (for example,
>>> which
>>> has a narrower reading plane), it will be even worse, as even -more-
>>> scrolling would be required.
>> Reading the original message on gmail was no problem for me nor
>> unreadable in any way (you must have your gmail configured in some f'ed up
>> way!).
> Never in my life, changed a setting in gmail - so that's how it is
> displayed by default.  Don't blame me, blame gmail.  I never changed
> anything.

Then if you don't like narrow messages you can always zoom in ;-)  But
seriously you are complaining about something that is beyond trivial to
customize (for example control-mouse wheel is your friend in most browsers
and not just for gmail but for other sites, some need to be zoomed and
other need to be zoomed out... almost no one makes the right guess for font
sizes and such on the web).

>>> We don't use 640x480 monitors anymore (hell, not even our SSH sessions
>>> run
>>> at these low resolutions and 80 col / 25 rows anymore) - we're way past
>>> that as well...  Whilst I now have to scroll up and down to read your
>>> message, I could have seen your entire message in one screen without the
>>> need to scroll up and down.
>> Maybe if you have *perfect* eyesight you could see it on one screen! (Not
>> everyone is 18 and has vision better than most fighter pilots).    And you
>> might be wrong about the row/col count of some/most SSH (X based terminal
>> apps) for example on a 1920x1080 monitor (27") my 50 year old eyes need
>> 37x135 (not that much larger than 25x80) when using a xfce terminal, the
>> default font size is unreadable even with 1.75 diopter reading glasses
>> (which are not needed if I use the above resolution).    Before you go
>> crazy about how everything can be done via a GUI I have one question: are
>> you a programmer or a sysadmin? (if not then you have no idea of how useful
>> a command line is vs. the GUI).
> Well if we have to get personal, I am 40 years old, psoriasis, rheumatoid
> arthritis affecting my eyesight, with glasses. My monitors run at their
> default resolution of 1920x1080 and I have zero issues seeing anything.
> Maybe you should go for an eye test, and get some glasses?

Just did, a few months ago, and except for a slight case of farsightedness
nothing wrong with them.   The doctor said it was completely normal for
eyes to lose their ability to quickly shift through different size objects
and text as they age (the lense is 100 times less elastic at 50 then at 20
and 10 less elastic then at 40).

>> Entry level from my local computer superstore (microcenter) is 25" and I
>> am sure I would have an even lower resolution there.  So no we are *NOT*
>> way past 25x80, you are just being dense and an elitist to say otherwise.
> And in typical FreeBSD mailing list etiquette, now we get offended and
> start slandering people.

Anyone who brags about how someone elses tech is "too old" is being
elitists (not everyone has deep pockets and/or works for a large
organization such as us freelancers).

> PS: You are the *EXCEPTION*, not the *NORM*.

Not according to my doctor who says my eyes better than average for a 50
year old.  Also since I help out with teaching a few CS classes (as an
unpaid TA) at the local university I have noticed most of the 20 something
students also increase the font size from the default (not as much as me
but about 20% increase).   So I don't think I am out of the norm (i.e. not
more then one standard deviation from the mean).

> --
> Regards,
> Chris Knipe

Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer,

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