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Date:      Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:47:47 -0700
From:      xavian anderson macpherson <professional3d@home.com>
To:        "freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG" <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   [Fwd: APOLOGIES GIVEN TO ALL]
Message-ID:  <39D91093.CD603D00@home.com>

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wyrdwulf@catskill.net wrote:

> Xavian:
>
> Freebsd is an operating system.  You may be required to install it.  It's
> rather different from linux (I use Debian myself) and requires a learning curve.  I
> don't think the vinum program for fbsd easily adapts to a linux system.  If you
> are proposing to "adapt" freebsd's "vinum" to SuSe I'm not sure it can be done.
> Netscape is notorious for bugs, so I'd suspect netscape before linux.  I'd also
> check the SuSe Linux list to see if your problems are unique.
> YAST is wonderful but I like Debian.

it may be netscape, but i have been having problems that have nothing to do with
netscape.

you didn't read my email very well.  i don't want vinum for linux.  nor was i
`proposing to adapt it to suse'.  frankly, to all concerned; i would rather not use
any linux program.  but the reality is that there are some holes in freebsd.  if there
weren't any (holes), no one would ever port programs from linux (or anything else for
that matteres) to freebsd.  the reality is that freebsd does not and may never have
the commercial support prevalent in linux.  the very nature of freebsd tends to ensure
this.  linux is rapidly becoming the microsft of the unix-wannabe community.  the
propensity of proprietary distributions for profit is what's driving this.  even linux
suffers compared to windows, even more so than apple.  the only chance that freebsd
will ever have is to make redhat linux rpms directly portable to freebsd without any
intervention by the end user.

as i pointed out to someone else, the redhat rpm manager is capable of converting
tarballs into rpm packages.  what we need is a devoted rpm manager for freebsd, that
will handle ALL of the conversion requirements from linux to freebsd.  you are already
a step ahead of linux.  i'd just like to see us take even larger steps forward.  and i
can just see the rage that some of you will have at the suggestion that freebsd should
adopt linux as one of it's own.  frankly i don't care too much for segregation, not in
any form.  and all segregation begins in the mind.  it is a refusal to think beyond
your own exclusive box.  to me, the foundation of freedom (free as in bsd) has to be
inclusivity.  it is the humility to look beyond oneself to consider the expansiveness
of ones greater community.  yes i have the capacity to rant, just like anyone else.  i
try however to make sure that whatever i am ranting about, conforms to reality.  if it
doesn't, i definately welcome the fact being brought to my attention.  i don't mind
being told that i am wrong, in fact i look forward to it.  i would be a fool to think
anyother way.  i cherish truthfulness too much, to place my own ego above it.  i often
find myself expressing views that are nothing less than bigoted.  when i do, i
immediately question my right to have such a view.  and the very fact that i recognize
that is wrong, obligates me to forsaking it.  when i find myself apartied to values or
concepts that abrogate the truth, not as i see it but as defined by a rigorous
examination of the facts, no matter how inconvient to myself, I CHANGE!  this is not
hog wash.  it is what i live by.  and i examine myself and everything (especially what
i buy) around me by that level of scrutiny.

>

>
> BTW, all caps means you are shouting.  Ver-r-ry unpleasant.
>
> Eric Wolven
>
> On Mon, 02 Oct 2000 21:14:14 xavian anderson macpherson wrote:
> > I AM SORRY FOR MY REMARKS.  I DIDN'T NEED TO SAY WHAT I SAID THE WAY I
> > SAID IT,  but i can send anyone copies of an email i got from someone
> > who was quite sarcastic when there was no need to be!  he has since
> > changed his tone.  so i am doing the same.  AGAIN, I AM SORRY!  i am
> > just a little bit concerned because i am getting conflicting answers in
> > the emails i have recieved privately.  some of you have been very
> > helpful and i am VERY THANKFUL AND IMPRESSED with the general tone of
> > thie remarks i have seen.
> >

does this mean that i was shouting when i said i was`VERY THANKFUL AND IMPRESSED'?  or
maybe i was shouting when i said `AGAIN, I AM SORRY', `I AM SORRY FOR MY REMARKS.  I
DIDN'T NEED TO SAY WHAT I SAID THE WAY I SAID IT'?  there is a difference between
shouting and simply making a statement of stressed emphasis.  SO LET ME SHOUT THIS
VERY CLEARLY.  IT IS THE INABILITY OR REFUSAL TO LOOK BEYOND THE WORDS AND SEE THE
LANGUAGE.  IT IS THE MEANING OF THE WORD THAT DEFINES THE LANGUAGE.  don't be so short
sighted.  people all too often only see what they want to, and ignore the message that
is presented to them.  it it easier that way to absolve oneself of any complicity they
may (most always) share in the situation that exists.  but god help us, if we have to
declare responsibility.


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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<font face="Arial,Helvetica">wyrdwulf@catskill.net wrote:</font>
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><font face="Arial,Helvetica">Xavian:</font>
<p><font face="Arial,Helvetica">Freebsd is an operating system.&nbsp; You
may be required to install it.&nbsp; It's</font>
<br><font face="Arial,Helvetica">rather different from linux (I use Debian
myself) and requires a learning curve.&nbsp; I</font>
<br><font face="Arial,Helvetica">don't think the vinum program for fbsd
easily adapts to a linux system.&nbsp; If you</font>
<br><font face="Arial,Helvetica">are proposing to "adapt" freebsd's "vinum"
to SuSe I'm not sure it can be done.</font>
<br><font face="Arial,Helvetica">Netscape is notorious for bugs, so I'd
suspect netscape before linux.&nbsp; I'd also</font>
<br><font face="Arial,Helvetica">check the SuSe Linux list to see if your
problems are unique.</font>
<br><font face="Arial,Helvetica">YAST is wonderful but I like Debian.</font></blockquote>
<b><font face="Arial,Helvetica">it may be netscape, but i have been having
problems that have nothing to do with netscape.</font></b>
<p><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica">you didn't read my email very well.&nbsp;
i don't want vinum for linux.&nbsp; nor was i `proposing to adapt it to
suse'.&nbsp; frankly, to all concerned; i would rather not use any linux
program.&nbsp; but the reality is that there are some holes in freebsd.&nbsp;
if there weren't any (holes), no one would ever port programs from linux
(or anything else for that matteres) to freebsd.&nbsp; the reality is that
freebsd does not and may never have the commercial support prevalent in
linux.&nbsp; the very nature of freebsd tends to ensure this.&nbsp; linux
is rapidly becoming the microsft of the unix-wannabe community.&nbsp; the
propensity of proprietary distributions for profit is what's driving this.&nbsp;
even linux suffers compared to windows, even more so than apple.&nbsp;
the only chance that freebsd will ever have is to make redhat linux rpms
directly portable to freebsd without any intervention by the end user.</font></b>
<p><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica">as i pointed out to someone else, the
redhat rpm manager is capable of converting tarballs into rpm packages.&nbsp;
what we need is a devoted rpm manager for freebsd, that will handle ALL
of the conversion requirements from linux to freebsd.&nbsp; you are already
a step ahead of linux.&nbsp; i'd just like to see us take even larger steps
forward.&nbsp; and i can just see the rage that some of you will have at
the suggestion that freebsd should adopt linux as one of it's own.&nbsp;
frankly i don't care too much for segregation, not in any form.&nbsp; and
all segregation begins in the mind.&nbsp; it is a refusal to think beyond
your own exclusive box.&nbsp; to me, the foundation of freedom (free as
in bsd) has to be inclusivity.&nbsp; it is the humility to look beyond
oneself to consider the expansiveness of ones greater community.&nbsp;
yes i have the capacity to rant, just like anyone else.&nbsp; i try however
to make sure that whatever i am ranting about, conforms to reality.&nbsp;
if it doesn't, i definately welcome the fact being brought to my attention.&nbsp;
i don't mind being told that i am wrong, in fact i look forward to it.&nbsp;
i would be a fool to think anyother way.&nbsp; i cherish truthfulness too
much, to place my own ego above it.&nbsp; i often find myself expressing
views that are nothing less than bigoted.&nbsp; when i do, i immediately
question my right to have such a view.&nbsp; and the very fact that i recognize
that is wrong, obligates me to forsaking it.&nbsp; when i find myself apartied
to values or concepts that abrogate the truth, not as i see it but as defined
by a rigorous examination of the facts, no matter how inconvient to myself,
I CHANGE!&nbsp; this is not hog wash.&nbsp; it is what i live by.&nbsp;
and i examine myself and everything (especially what i buy) around me by
that level of scrutiny.</font></b>
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;</blockquote>

<blockquote TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;
<br><font face="Arial,Helvetica">BTW, all caps means you are shouting.&nbsp;
Ver-r-ry unpleasant.</font>
<p><font face="Arial,Helvetica">Eric Wolven</font>
<p><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica">On Mon, 02 Oct 2000 21:14:14 xavian
anderson macpherson wrote:</font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica">> I AM SORRY FOR MY REMARKS.&nbsp;
I DIDN'T NEED TO SAY WHAT I SAID THE WAY I</font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica">> SAID IT,&nbsp; but i can send anyone
copies of an email i got from someone</font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica">> who was quite sarcastic when there
was no need to be!&nbsp; he has since</font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica">> changed his tone.&nbsp; so i am doing
the same.&nbsp; AGAIN, I AM SORRY!&nbsp; i am</font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica">> just a little bit concerned because
i am getting conflicting answers in</font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica">> the emails i have recieved privately.&nbsp;
some of you have been very</font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica">> helpful and i am VERY THANKFUL AND
IMPRESSED with the general tone of</font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica">> thie remarks i have seen.</font></b>
<br><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica">></font></b></blockquote>
<b><font face="Arial,Helvetica">does this mean that i was shouting when
i said i was`VERY THANKFUL AND IMPRESSED'?&nbsp; or maybe i was shouting
when i said `AGAIN, I AM SORRY', `I AM SORRY FOR MY REMARKS.&nbsp; I DIDN'T
NEED TO SAY WHAT I SAID THE WAY I SAID IT'?&nbsp; there is a difference
between shouting and simply making a statement of stressed emphasis.&nbsp;
SO LET ME SHOUT THIS VERY CLEARLY.&nbsp; IT IS THE INABILITY OR REFUSAL
TO LOOK BEYOND THE WORDS AND SEE THE LANGUAGE.&nbsp; IT IS THE MEANING
OF THE WORD THAT DEFINES THE LANGUAGE.&nbsp; don't be so short sighted.&nbsp;
people all too often only see what they want to, and ignore the message
that is presented to them.&nbsp; it it easier that way to absolve oneself
of any complicity they may (most always) share in the situation that exists.&nbsp;
but god help us, if we have to declare responsibility.</font></b>
<br>&nbsp;</html>

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