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Date:      Fri, 1 Jun 2018 07:08:29 +0100
From:      Johannes Lundberg <johalun0@gmail.com>
To:        Oliver Pinter <oliver.pinter@hardenedbsd.org>
Cc:        jmaloney@ixsystems.com, deischen@freebsd.org,  Konstantin Belousov <kostikbel@gmail.com>, freebsd-current <freebsd-current@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: [RFC] Deprecation and removal of the drm2 driver
Message-ID:  <CAECmPwu8t3dYPEdesKdjxF61vzqD51w5L_Es7A72AuEZGUhOdw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAPQ4ffutj8nOmz-A-7criFiO0XXrmqwTUNdS3-1QZLWubEbXRw@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <20180524160234.GD68014@FreeBSD.org> <201805241610.w4OGAAGY041280@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <20180530235156.310870d0@thor.intern.walstatt.dynvpn.de> <CAECmPwvFkO6Qc_7kZowCHdSEVQwV12ZomsbTe4=X=sp7pW=7Kg@mail.gmail.com> <20180531101643.GV3789@kib.kiev.ua> <Pine.GSO.4.64.1805311004450.15754@sea.ntplx.net> <CAFvkmYNtVywXoX7wcy0qMzbvh-amcF-PsOXQMQD2L%2B9p%2BZWQJw@mail.gmail.com> <CAECmPwu_y8J3te%2BLKSKfHQdsbs6ktkp0GGwLkkVhQQquN0sMxw@mail.gmail.com> <CAPQ4ffutj8nOmz-A-7criFiO0XXrmqwTUNdS3-1QZLWubEbXRw@mail.gmail.com>

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On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:34 PM Oliver Pinter <
oliver.pinter@hardenedbsd.org> wrote:

>
>
> On Thursday, May 31, 2018, Johannes Lundberg <johalun0@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 4:34 PM Joe Maloney <jmaloney@ixsystems.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I personally wish that more drivers, and firmware were separated from
>> > base.
>> >
>> >
>> I'm not a committer
>
>
>>
>>
> If you are not a committer,  how and why want to remove drm2 from the base
> system?
>


Nice way to shoot down people (who are working together with active
committers) trying to make FreeBSD and it's derivatives a better OS for its
users. As a way to help prevent breakage I suggested an upgrade to the
outdated build infrastructure. Something that should be done anyway. But
what do I know, I don't have a commit bit...



>
> From other side, how you want to maintain VM and other KPI changes in
> unmaintained and abandoned port? ;) Or how you can guarantee to everyone
> who breaks KPI to follow these breaks in an external abandoned port?
>
>
>>
>> but as I understand there's not pre-commit integration
>> tests.. If one had that, plus that it would test build kmod ports against
>> the pre-commit state of head as well, then maybe this would work.
>>
>>
>> > For example wireless firmware:
>> >
>> > https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=169433
>> >
>> > That was a ticket which I chimed in on about a firmware I needed to make
>> > my wireless adapter work.  I went through numerous efforts on IRC, and
>> > elsewhere to try to bring attention that ticket in order to attempt to
>> get
>> > that firmware backported for several 10.x releases in a row without
>> > success.  The firmware worked perfectly fine in PC-BSD where it was
>> cherry
>> > picked for numerous 10.x releases.
>> >
>> > Technically since I was using PC-BSD, and was a committer for that
>> project
>> > I had no real dire need to reach out to FreeBSD about the issue.  I was
>> > simply trying to help anyone else who might be encountering the same
>> issue
>> > trying to use stock FreeBSD because it was a simple backport.  If my
>> effort
>> > had turned out to be more fruitful I would have spent more time pursuing
>> > tickets, diffs, or whatever to get more things back-ported when I found
>> > them.  I am not sure where the breakdown was which did not allow that to
>> > happen.  Anyways I don't want to bikeshed, or anything but I just
>> wanted to
>> > point out how I think having more drivers, and firmware in ports could
>> be
>> > helpful to enhance compatibility for end users.
>> >
>> > Having a separate port for legacy drm could definitely make things
>> easier
>> > to providing installation options for end users, and automating the post
>> > install action chosen in TrueOS, GhostBSD, and future derivative
>> projects
>> > tailored for the desktop use case.  For example for TrueOS we boot the
>> > installer in failsafe mode with either VESA, or SCFB depending on
>> whether
>> > or not BIOS, or EFI is booted.  Then we could simply make a checkbox for
>> > legacy intel, or skylake + to install the correct package then the
>> module
>> > path for either driver can more or less remain the same.  Eventually
>> with
>> > something like devmatch maybe that can even be fully automatic.
>> >
>> > Joe Maloney
>> >
>> > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 10:23 AM, Daniel Eischen <deischen@freebsd.org>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Thu, 31 May 2018, Konstantin Belousov wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 08:34:44AM +0100, Johannes Lundberg wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> We're not replacing anything. We are moving the older drm1 and drm2
>> from
>> >>>> kernel to ports to make it easier for the majority of the users to
>> load
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> correct driver without conflicts.
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> You do understand that you increase your maintainence load by this
>> move.
>> >>> dev/drm and dev/drm2 use KPIs which cannot be kept stable even in
>> stable
>> >>> branches, so you will need to chase these updates.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> I agree.  One argument previously made was that it's easier
>> >> to maintain in ports.  One data point from me - I rarely
>> >> update my ports, I update my OS much more frequently.  In
>> >> fact, some times my ports get so out of date I just
>> >> (take off and) nuke /usr/local (from orbit, it's the only
>> >> way to be sure).
>> >>
>> >> Also, are we trying to solve a problem by moving drm[2] to
>> >> ports that won't be a problem when base is pkg'ized?  If
>> >> drm[2] is a package unto itself, then you don't have this
>> >> problem of ports conflicting with it, at least not so
>> >> much.  You can either not install the base drm[2] package
>> >> or deinstall it to make way for a conflicting port.  Once
>> >> drm[2] is pkg rm'd, it's not going to be reinstalled
>> >> again when you update the base OS.
>> >>
>> >> And don't we have the same problem with sendmail and a
>> >> few other base services?
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> DE
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >
>> >
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>



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