Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:09:42 -0500 From: Christopher Masto <chris@netmonger.net> To: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GPL issues (Was: More important Windows Refund Day coverage) Message-ID: <19990222160942.A24590@netmonger.net> In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990222132000.04005810@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 01:33:41PM -0700 References: <4.1.19990221233032.03fffba0@mail.lariat.org> <199902211924.OAA02025@y.dyson.net> <19990221180845.J93492@lemis.com> <199902211924.OAA02025@y.dyson.net> <19990222082525.A1429@ska.bsn> <4.1.19990221233032.03fffba0@mail.lariat.org> <19990222143416.A25682@netmonger.net> <4.1.19990222132000.04005810@mail.lariat.org>
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On Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 01:33:41PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 02:34 PM 2/22/99 -0500, Christopher Masto wrote: > > >As a strong FreeBSD supporter who prefers the GPL to the various other > >free software licenses I've seen, I find this thread quite disturbing. > > Perhaps you don't understand the full intent, implications, or effects > of the GPL. If you did, you might find the GPL to be quite disturbing. > I certainly do. Perhaps you don't understand that SOME OF US ARE NOT YOU. I certainly do. > >People seem to be simultaneously upset about something that they > >percieve as taking away the freedom to use whatever license they want, > >while complaining about people who choose to use a different license. > > Most of the people who use the GPL are unaware of its history, its > intent, or its effects. They mistakenly believe that the use of > the GPL benefits them (it does not), and do not understand the way > in which it sabotages developers who seek to make an honest living. You claim that you are making "an honest living". I claim that you are hurting your neighbors. > >When I write software, I happen to want the > >restrictions of the GPL. I do not want my code to ever become > >non-free. > > If you use a Berkeley-style license, your code will not become > "non-free." In fact, it is MORE free than it is under the GPL, because > it can be used by anyone for any purpose. I do not want my code to be used for non-free purposes. > Only code that others write to work with your code may be kept > private, and that is their right. No, it's not. It's my code, and it's my right to not give them that permission. If you want to use my code, you have to accept my terms, and my terms are that it remain free. If you don't like that, you'll have to write your own code instead of using mine. > >That's my right - it's my code. The reason that I write > >free software in the first place is that I have seen what comes of > >proprietary software, and I don't like it, > > Arguments that "what comes of proprietary software" is bad are generally > specious and/or appeal solely to one egregious example: Microsoft. I'm not making an argument against proprietary software. I do not care to have such an argument. I have my reasons for not wanting to be a part of the proprietary software world. That is why I use the GPL. > >The GPL allows me to produce free software, and yes, it does > >hurt people who want to use my code in proprietary programs, but > >that's too bad - I'm not interested in helping the makers of > >proprietary programs. > > In that case, you are intentionally sabotaging the ability of all > developers to make a living. As such, you are engaged in a process > that's destructive, rather than constructive. No, I'm deciding how the code I write is allowed to be used. The same way you can decide to hoard your code. > >Can't we stop all this nonsensical comparison of software licenses to > >various "evil" political/economic systems, and just acknowledge that > >we have differences of opinion when it comes to the way software > >should be licensed? > > It is not appropriate to "stop" discussions of such an important issue. > The fact is that the GPL is anti-business, anti-consumer, and > anti-competitive, and was created in an atmosphere of spite and > destructiveness. It's not nonsensical; it's so. It sounds like the atmosphere of spite and destructiveness is coming from you. > >I will never be convinced that proprietary software is good, > > I see: Making an honest living as a developer is OBVIOUSLY evil and wrong. You can make an honest living as a developer without hurting your neighbors. I do not believe that certain things are right to do just because you are paid for them. Making an honest living as a gas chamber operator is OBVIOUSLY evil and wrong. > So, you intend to take it upon yourself to make sure that these horrible > people cannot find jobs doing the work they love. What a positive > attitude! So, you intend to take it upon yourself to make sure than these horrible people (free software developers) cannot find happiness donating the work they love, because you're afraid that it will decrease the amount of money you're able to grub. What a positive attitude! > Oh, and by the way, better throw out your computer. Its ROMs contain -- > evil of evils -- PROPRIETARY software! Oh, and better do the same with your > hard drive, your laser printer, your modem, your microwave oven, your > car.... You wouldn't want to be seen as a supporter of such an evil > horror, would you? I would like to see free replacements for these things. But you don't seem to understand that I am capable of rational behavior. You see GPL and have a shit-fit. As I mentioned before, I am not happy with FreeBSD's license, but I use it anyway. I am not happy with proprietary BIOS software in my computer, but I use it anyway. I am not happy with the Southern State Parkway, but I use it anyway. I live in the real world, unlike those who believe that the very existence of the GNU GPL as an option under which I can license my code is undermining the very fabric of our glorious capitalist software industry. -- Christopher Masto Director of Operations NetMonger Communications chris@netmonger.net info@netmonger.net http://www.netmonger.net "Good tools allow users to do stupid things." -- Clay Shirky To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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