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Date:      Wed, 23 Dec 2009 08:59:54 -0800
From:      Randi Harper <randi@freebsd.org>
To:        Tony Theodore <tonyt@logyst.com>
Cc:        freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, "Julian H. Stacey" <jhs@berklix.com>
Subject:   Re: why BSDs got no love
Message-ID:  <e277d6c80912230859m2f948c19j2ee11ced257f0349@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <22166b750912230853m4a889656rbb6020f0eb133410@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <e277d6c80912230658k45c946ddga3ea807704d7dc61@mail.gmail.com> <200912231548.nBNFmcn3064359@fire.js.berklix.net> <e277d6c80912230804k57470a3akda9c943ccc40e0d4@mail.gmail.com> <22166b750912230853m4a889656rbb6020f0eb133410@mail.gmail.com>

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On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Tony Theodore <tonyt@logyst.com> wrote:
>>>> > Perhaps the way to go is a common table of target defaults eg
>>>> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0/usr/src/usr.sbin/sysinstall/install.cfg
>>>> > Which could then be edited by all of
>>>> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Front end CLI =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (*)
>>>> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Front end curses GUI =A0 =A0(*)
>>>> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(*) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Maybe the=
se 2 alternatives should be
>>>> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0the f=
irst question the installer asks ?
>>>> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Front end X11 GUI (for later after main install compl=
ete
>>>> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0- Shu=
dder, Not that I'd use it, but someone
>>>> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0w=
ould probably want to write one).
>>>> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0vi - for editing, & writing back to new boot media,
>>>> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0to auto install on multiple identical=
 new machines.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would sooner stab myself in the face.
>>>
>>> Not obvious at all which your personal revulsion applies to
>>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0CLI ? ncurses ? install.cfg ?, X11 ?, vi ?
>>
>>
>> All of the above. The bug list for sysinstall is not small. Even if
>> this wasn't the case, I'm not even going to work on introducing that
>> many options and obfuscating the code that much more. The mere thought
>> of the rewrite involved in adding that kind of support makes my head
>> feel like the knife is already in place.
>
> The idea is that it "simplifies" the code by making it more modular.
> All the final "sysinstall" has to do is execute the specifics of
> install.cfg. It's just a text file, anything can modify it - of
> course, in a standardised way. The suggestion is to develop front-ends
> that can generate/modify such a file which the installer back-end will
> execute. Think of it as functional programming for installers - define
> the installations options in a declarative way, and let the installer
> take care of the rest.
>
> Yes, trying to implement such a thing may drive you to stab yourself
> in the face - you can do that with a toothpick, but the idea should
> cause you to sharpen a different blade. No one is asking you to do it,
> just think of some possibilities.
>
>
>> The only support I've been *thinking* about adding is a simple CLI in
>> addition to the existing libdialog (ncurses) install. This would still
>> be a not insignificant modification, but there are issues that make
>> using a libdialog based installer problematic on some displays. It's a
>> fun idea to kick around, but it's not a priority.
>>
>> I don't even know what you mean by vi, but it sounds confusing and
>> unnecessary. This is what install.cfg is for - so you can define the
>> parameters of an installation beforehand.
>
> vi is an arcane, obscure text editor that is used by alpha/uber-geeks
> to modify *.cfg files ;) No one in their right mind would suggest the
> possibility of manually editing a text file, let alone the sysinstall
> .cfg file. Who knows what configuration options would be possible?


Yeah... I know what vi *is*. I don't see how it's relevant as an
installation option. And by the way, you do edit the install.cfg file
by hand. We don't have a handy tool to automagically create one of
these as far as I know. You know what options are possible by looking
at the sysinstall man page, looking at the example install.cfg file,
or reading sysinstall.h.


>
> Having cli/X11/ncurses/text interfaces to install.cfg seems ideal to
> me. The technical difficulty alone would in all likelihood ground it,
> it doesn't need to be shot down.


I'm shooting it down as in "I am not doing this" because I'm currently
the person working on sysinstall. ;)


-- randi



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