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Date:      Tue, 8 Mar 2016 18:55:58 -0700
From:      Brad Walker <bwalker@musings.com>
To:        John Clark <jeclark2006@aim.com>
Cc:        Adrian Chadd <adrian.chadd@gmail.com>,  "freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org" <freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org>, Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: ? about kernel size..
Message-ID:  <CAPKZHbX0Ozc_2U%2BvZd=nR1P=4XO3egSDq0wTn8reCzR24MdUWQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <A40E6CF0-62D5-4956-A2BB-AAD7BFF60A6B@aim.com>
References:  <CAPKZHbVyPji-bZwDzM77TN6qybjRcf%2BZe5r6WZmbG98LkhT-rg@mail.gmail.com> <CANCZdfriqr24Lh9ZuptaC0gEm6gAV6LN9XHcVAJtbyaBejEgNg@mail.gmail.com> <CAPKZHbW%2BG7WnSU__yeYBVPqs8MPmFm-5q_wM4sm9FxHhEEgPDg@mail.gmail.com> <1457473674.1406.46.camel@freebsd.org> <CAPKZHbX8BXKC_=8PPvtasqE%2BRj96_mPQkqdRt=hqU6fazxpPfA@mail.gmail.com> <CAJ-Vmo=yW0=VHkjed8NYxRmE7dqtd8=bN8KLmav9-bBEZ-U1YQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAPKZHbV1D5hTXCCRAYy6XkkcqJEizHH8ymK5dgsCsvXEeRd5jQ@mail.gmail.com> <A40E6CF0-62D5-4956-A2BB-AAD7BFF60A6B@aim.com>

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By God John, you have pretty much summed up the current state of my
engineering life!

I encountered these problems when I worked at a company called Xetawave.
They install these RF modems all over the place. A big market is the
oil/gas industry. If something breaks, they have to send out a technician
and that costs $100s of dollars. Managers start to get really anxious when
that happens.

My current embedded client is about the same thing. Once the device is
installed getting it fixed/changed can be a real hassle. Don't even get me
started on the TCP/IP or memory issues dealing with uTasker. I can't
believe companies actually fall for this stuff, but they do. They make real
products out of them. But, it can be such a hassle.

-brad w.



On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 6:42 PM, John Clark <jeclark2006@aim.com> wrote:

>
> On Mar 8, 2016, at 5:20 PM, Brad Walker <bwalker@musings.com> wrote:
>
> For example, we have a requirement to implement SSL/TLS, BTLE, and ftp on=
 a
> microkernel. By the time this is done, it will be worthwhile to look at
> alternatives. Not to mention, the needs just keep coming.
>
> -brad w.
>
>
> At which point I become very vociferous in arguing against using a proces=
s
> so limited that it can=E2=80=99t run a BSD/Linux derivative.
>
> This sort of happened with the recent brush with the 8051=E2=80=A6 The Bo=
ss wanted
> to have the 8051 do some TCP/IP with some sort of
> Ethernet interface that was available from the company that made the 8051=
=E2=80=A6
>
> At which point I found a $15 AP based on MIPS/Atheros SoC, and provided
> not only TCP/IP but also a local hotspot for control/monitoring, ethernet
> hub, mini http server, etc.
>
> If someone wanted to reduce cost from $15 they could have gotten the Eval
> package and gotten the design to a manufacturing house for much less as
> well=E2=80=A6
> Of course they would talking about volumes many times greater than 100s=
=E2=80=A6
>
> The 8051 controller was still in there, but the =E2=80=98fancy=E2=80=99 s=
tuff was on a
> board that could handle =E2=80=98fancy=E2=80=99 stuff without making the =
project 2-3 years
> worth of development on a minimal
> processor platform.
>
> Another aspect of the =E2=80=98minimal system=E2=80=99 that is required t=
o do =E2=80=98fancy=E2=80=99
> stuff, is that often the TCP/IP implementation is sort of =E2=80=98half-b=
aked=E2=80=99 and
> can introduce problems which go
> far beyond just not accessing the device=E2=80=A6 it could cause problems=
 for the
> entire network, and require much debugging to solve=E2=80=A6 or even unde=
rstand
> what=E2=80=99s going on=E2=80=A6
>
> This may be ok if the devices are located in conveniently accessible
> locations=E2=80=A6 but if one has to go to a remote location via helicopt=
er or pack
> in equipment with mules=E2=80=A6
> such issues become bigger than the cost savings of some minimal solution.
>
> John Clark.
>
>



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