Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:04:38 -0700 From: Marcel Moolenaar <marcel@xcllnt.net> To: Matthew Dillon <dillon@apollo.backplane.com> Cc: Kip Macy <kmacy@fsmware.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD mail list etiquette Message-ID: <20031025230438.GA1118@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> In-Reply-To: <200310252142.h9PLgqq4032428@apollo.backplane.com> References: <200310230143.32244.wes@softweyr.com> <20031025175948.GF683@funkthat.com> <3F9AC703.4DBAA14C@mindspring.com> <20031025194135.GA790@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> <20031025200852.GB18072@freebie.xs4all.nl> <200310252142.h9PLgqq4032428@apollo.backplane.com>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 02:42:52PM -0700, Matthew Dillon wrote: > > So it simply becomes a matter of whether there is a developer within > the project who feels that a piece of work is interesting enough to do > the last bit required to integrate, document, and bring it into your > project in a fashion that can be maintained generally according to > the rules of that project... and then move on. Yes. Note that the developer doesn't even have to think the work is interesting. Just that it's valuable and worth doing. > The work is certainly germane. Really, any open-source work is germane, > especially on the a list like freebsd-hackers :-) Agreed, to some extend. Not all open source projects have sufficient relation or impact on FreeBSD that discussing them here has an impact on FreeBSD. I certainly agree that work done in DragonFly can be discussed here. For the sake of DragonFly and FreeBSD I would expect that none of the FreeBSD lists are used as substitutes for DragonFly mailinglists and vice versa. > The FreeBSD project > is an open-source project, after all, even if some of its developers > treat it as their own personal fiefdoms and people are afraid to cross > maintainership boundaries because they get their heads bitten off every > time they do. Fiefdoms are natural. We humans have a long history of people trying to grab power at various levels of scope, with various levels of force or terror and for reasons of insecurity or insanity at various levels of mental abnormality. This does not mean that fiefdoms are good. It simply means that you're kicking-in open doors. The problem is how to create an environment where the creation of fiefdoms can be stopped before it becomes a problem. Also, I think that most fiefdoms are in fact protectorates. When some- one has put in a lot of thought and work to make some component as perfect as is reasonably possible, you're likely going to step on his or her (we don't want to be labeled as sexists here :-) toes if you make changes that do not appear to have been thought-out as much as the original code. The appearance may not match reality of course, but still the author is likely to resist as a first reaction. Better yet, and I think this applies to you, when changes go against the direction the author was going into, you have a far more political struggle than we'd probably all like. You suddenly have to deal with personalities, egos and other non-technical subjects. It can reach a point where the technical content is totally irrelevant, because the battle is really mostly personal and the code is just an excuse. This may look like fiefdoms, but it's really just psychology and human imperfection. We all suck that way :-) > The whole maintainership and stewardship concept has > seriously stratified FreeBSD development, to the point where some very > bad technical decisions have been made over the last few years (Hence > DragonFly's existence). I don't think it's that bad or that it can be generalized this way, but there are some examples that seem to support what you say. -- Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?20031025230438.GA1118>