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Date:      Tue, 9 Apr 2019 15:27:57 -0500
From:      Karl Denninger <karl@denninger.net>
To:        freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Concern: ZFS Mirror issues (12.STABLE and firmware 19 .v. 20)
Message-ID:  <9a96b1b5-9337-fcae-1a2a-69d7bb24a5b3@denninger.net>
In-Reply-To: <c96e31ad-6731-332e-5d2d-7be4889716e1@FreeBSD.org>
References:  <f87f32f2-b8c5-75d3-4105-856d9f4752ef@denninger.net> <c96e31ad-6731-332e-5d2d-7be4889716e1@FreeBSD.org>

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On 4/9/2019 15:04, Andriy Gapon wrote:
> On 09/04/2019 22:01, Karl Denninger wrote:
>> the resilver JUST COMPLETED with no errors which means the ENTIRE DISK=
'S
>> IN USE AREA was examined, compared, and blocks not on the "new member"=

>> or changed copied over.
> I think that that's not entirely correct.
> ZFS maintains something called DTL, a dirty-time log, for a missing / o=
fflined /
> removed device.  When the device re-appears and gets resilvered, ZFS wa=
lks only
> those blocks that were born within the TXG range(s) when the device was=
 missing.
>
> In any case, I do not have an explanation for what you are seeing.

That implies something much more-serious could be wrong such as given
enough time -- a week, say -- that the DTL marker is incorrect and some
TXGs that were in fact changed since the OFFLINE are not walked through
and synchronized.=C2=A0 That would explain why it gets caught by a scrub =
--
the resilver is in fact not actually copying all the blocks that got
changed and so when you scrub the blocks are not identical.=C2=A0 Assumin=
g
the detached disk is consistent that's not catastrophically bad IF
CAUGHT; where you'd get screwed HARD is in the situation where (for
example) you had a 2-unit mirror, detached one, re-attached it, resilver
says all is well, there is no scrub performed and then the
*non-detached* disk fails before there is a scrub.=C2=A0 In that case you=

will have permanently destroyed or corrupted data since the other disk
is allegedly consistent but there are blocks *missing* that were never
copied over.

Again this just showed up on 12.x; it definitely was *not* at issue in
11.1 at all.=C2=A0 I never ran 11.2 in production for a material amount o=
f
time (I went from 11.1 to 12.0 STABLE after the IPv6 fixes were posted
to 12.x) so I don't know if it is in play on 11.2 or not.

I'll see if it shows up again with 20.00.07.00 card firmware.

Of note I cannot reproduce this on my test box with EITHER 19.00.00.00
or 20.00.07.00 firmware when I set up a 3-unit mirror, offline one, make
a crap-ton of changes, offline the second and reattach the third (in
effect mirroring the "take one to the vault" thing) with a couple of
hours elapsed time and a synthetic (e.g. "dd if=3D/dev/random of=3Doutfil=
e
bs=3D1m" sort of thing) "make me some new data that has to be resilvered"=

workload.=C2=A0 I don't know if that's because I need more entropy in the=

filesystem than I can reasonably generate this way (e.g. more
fragmentation of files, etc) or whether it's a time-based issue (e.g.
something's wrong with the DTL/TXG thing as you note above in terms of
how it functions and it only happens if the time elapsed causes
something to be subject to a rollover or similar problem.)=C2=A0

I spent quite a lot of time trying to make reproduce the issue on my
"sandbox" machine and was unable -- and of note it is never a large
quantity of data that is impacted, it's usually only a couple of dozen
checksums that show as bad and fixed.=C2=A0 Of note it's also never just =
one;
if there was a single random hit on a data block due to ordinary bitrot
sort of issues I'd expect only one checksum to be bad.=C2=A0 But generati=
ng a
realistic synthetic workload over the amount of time involved on a
sandbox is not trivial at all; the system on which this is now happening
handles a lot of email and routine processing of various sorts including
a fair bit of database activity associated with network monitoring and
statistical analysis.

I'm assuming that using "offline" as a means to do this hasn't become
"invalid" as something that's considered "ok" as a means of doing this
sort of thing.... it certainly has worked perfectly well for a very long
time!

--=20
Karl Denninger
karl@denninger.net <mailto:karl@denninger.net>
/The Market Ticker/
/[S/MIME encrypted email preferred]/

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