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Date:      Thu, 21 Dec 2017 14:03:02 +0200
From:      Tommi Pernila <tommi.pernila@gmail.com>
To:        Tijl Coosemans <tijl@freebsd.org>
Cc:        Greg V <greg@unrelenting.technology>, freebsd-x11@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Vote: making wayland=on default (also posted to ports@)
Message-ID:  <CABHD1wQfD5pAsr-u=a2BgrRcYW4y%2BcvvnW2Bp1tmL-d5%2BQZsJA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <20171221113800.4b3acf10@kalimero.tijl.coosemans.org>
References:  <CAECmPwsN15WxSuXynto=RxTyztQdUjU5vaR6Y%2BCEkqDNW3_5Rg@mail.gmail.com> <20171220132717.0eb5777d@ernst.home> <CAECmPwsBTaM=hTt46r7h7ZvWEtpqDRe-MKWxQFAAR6jd%2BYkpMw@mail.gmail.com> <20171220180106.0224107c@kalimero.tijl.coosemans.org> <0cadf450-ce6b-f9bc-bdbd-99f89c4dec6f@unrelenting.technology> <20171221113800.4b3acf10@kalimero.tijl.coosemans.org>

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On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Tijl Coosemans <tijl@freebsd.org> wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 02:55:06 +0300 Greg V <greg@unrelenting.technology>
> wrote:
> > On 12/20/2017 20:01, Tijl Coosemans wrote:
> >> On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 12:53:20 +0000 Johannes Lundberg <
> johalun0@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Can you guarantee this?  I seem to have mesa-libs stuff installed
> >>>> even though I use the nvidia-driver.  May be that pkg just
> >>>> installed mesa-libs as a dependency for some other package.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm using the AMD Ryzen which has no on-board graphics, so I'm
> >>>> happily using my NVIDIA GPU and have absolutely no desire to
> >>>> change because someone enables wayland by default.
> >>> x11-toolkits/gtk30 will get some added dependencies:
> >>> libwayland-client.so:graphics/wayland \
> >>> libwayland-egl.so:graphics/mesa-libs \
> >>> libxkbcommon.so:x11/libxkbcommon
> >>>
> >>> Is this a problem for Nvidia users?
> >> The older nvidia drivers don't have libEGL, but if libwayland-egl.so
> >> isn't actually used at runtime it's probably ok.
> > It's not used when you're on X11, because X11 is not Wayland :)
>
> But is libEGL loaded into memory?
> _______________________________________________
>

Hi,

Nvidia and Wayland is an issue currently.

TL:DR;
1.
Pure Wayland application  with the binary Nvidia drivers do work,
Currently normal desktop usage is quite limited.
 E.g. Browsers do not work correctly,
X-applications do not work with XWayland on Nvidia's drivers
2.
Nouveau driver isn't currently supported in FreeBSD.

and here is the looong version

1.
X-applications do not work with xWayland.

Why?
It is because XWayland uses GBM and it does not have support for Nvidia=E2=
=80=99s
proprietary driver.
All opensource drivers are supporting GBM.

   GBM (Generic Buffer Management) is an API which provides a mechanism
   for allocating buffers for graphics rendering tied to Mesa.

How did we get here?

Nvidia first wanted to do an easy solution from their point-of-view
and have everyone (meaning all window managers) write in support for the
EGL streams.
https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/wayland-devel/2017-
January/032722.html

Most developers were not really excited on this proposal.
 KDE developer:
 https://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2017/10/
plasmawayland-and-nvidia-2017-edition/

 Sway developer:
 https://drewdevault.com/2017/10/26/Fuck-you-nvidia.html

Nvidia then publicly apologize for the EGL stream proposal
and also proposed a better way of solving the problem
 https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/mesa-dev/2017-November/177632.html

Name for the new project initially was "Device Memory Allocator Project"
Nvidia's newer tentative name is *Generic Device Memory Allocator*
and *liballoc* as the allocator library name.

The project has some prototype code in Github, but it hasn't seen much
activity.
 https://github.com/cubanismo/allocator
I'm hoping something will eventually come out from this not-so-ideal
situation.


2.
Only way to get Nvidia hardware running Wayland is currently with the
Nouveau open source drivers.
Nouveau drivers do not have a working port in FreeBSD,
this was dropped from the ports tree in 2014 with this commit message:

  2014-01-31 x11-drivers/xf86-video-nouveau: Not supported, missing kernel
  support. use the nvidia driver


Wayland can fully work on FreeBSD with Nvidia hardware when:

A/
Nouveau driver works on FreeBSD.
I have no idea how difficult it would be to report Nouveau back to FreeBSD?

  or

B/
Nvidia has their new Generic Device Memory Allocator project in a working
state.
This might take a long time, a year or two?


Br,

Tommi



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