Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 19:09:38 -0500 From: Pedro Giffuni <pfg@FreeBSD.org> To: Cy Schubert <Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com>, Brooks Davis <brooks@freebsd.org> Cc: Eugene Grosbein <eugen@grosbein.net>, Stefan Esser <se@freebsd.org>, "rgrimes@freebsd.org" <rgrimes@freebsd.org>, Mark Linimon <linimon@lonesome.com>, Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@freebsd.org>, Sean Bruno <sbruno@freebsd.org>, "svn-src-head@freebsd.org" <svn-src-head@freebsd.org>, "svn-src-all@freebsd.org" <svn-src-all@freebsd.org>, "src-committers@freebsd.org" <src-committers@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Deorbiting i386 Message-ID: <e4311612-d1c4-b118-187b-7086945a312d@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <201805232218.w4NMIxMA067892@slippy.cwsent.com> References: <201805232218.w4NMIxMA067892@slippy.cwsent.com>
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FWIW; On 23/05/2018 17:18, Cy Schubert wrote: > In message <20180523202228.GC58848@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net>, Brooks > Davis wr > ites: >> >> --QRj9sO5tAVLaXnSD >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> Content-Disposition: inline >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> >> On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 02:53:16AM +0700, Eugene Grosbein wrote: >>> 24.05.2018 2:30, Cy Schubert wrote: >>> =20 >>>> Except for old computers and old software that segfaults on 64-bit, how= >> many people still use i386? >>>> =20 >>>> Full disclosure: I'd like to see i386 deorbited before I retire. >>> =20 >>> Plese don't. I routinely use FreeBSD11/i386 for cheap VPS hosts having le= >> ss than 2G memory >>> because amd64 has noticeable overhead. I even have ZFS-only i386 VPS, her= >> e is live example with 1G only: >>> =20 >>> Mem: 10M Active, 69M Inact, 230M Wired, 685M Free >>> ARC: 75M Total, 1953K MFU, 31M MRU, 172K Anon, 592K Header, 42M Other >>> 3500K Compressed, 29M Uncompressed, 8.61:1 Ratio >>> Swap: 1024M Total, 1024M Free >>> =20 >>> The VPS has only 20G of disk space and ZFS compression gives >>> compressratio 2.22x for ports, 2.51x for src, 2.29x for obj >>> and 1.95x for installed i386 system plus other software and data. >> I think we're quite a ways from being ready to axe i386. >> >> For VPS applications, we should probably get x32 support in place which >> should give us the best of both worlds. >> >> That said, we either need to rev the i386 ABI to use a 64-bit time_t or >> kill it in the not to distant future or we risk embedded systems failing >> in place in 2038. If we assume a 15 year life for most equipment to >> fail electrically or mechanically that says FreeBSD 13 shouldn't support >> the current i386 ABI. > Rereading this, I'm confused. FreeBSD 13? 2023? Either works for me, > though 2023 is more reasonable and gives people more than enough time > to migrate. > > IMHO, we shouldn't at all plan to deorbit i386: it is a platform that is very easy to test on Jenkins/bhyve. If we want to keep FreeBSD multiplatform it is way easier to test and find bugs on i386 than on other 32 bit platforms. It is fully functional and much more than historic value. X32 sadly didn't catch on linux on AFAICT, although I wouldn't object to it appearing on FreeBSD. Pedro.
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